Keeping Fit: Page 22 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Keeping Fit

Gazza M

Or you're wrong 🙂

I've barely started experimenting with this, so I'm not claiming its some kind of be all end all. I'm open minded with fitness. Over the last 50 years 'established' thought has been torn down over and over. What works for some won't work for others. Unless you chaps have actually tested this for yourselves and can share your results, you're not adding much value for me

flobaba

Well I don’t know about this fasting or things like that in general. We are the same height though, and at 90kg (198lbs) you are around the weight I was at when I had my flabs about 2 -3 months ago or so. I dropped over 10 lbs and the unwanted belly, basically by increasing my cardio- started running again. 2 - 3 miles pre weight training, 4 or 5 days a week, and footy on the weekend did the trick. One just has to be dedicated and consistent.

I am no expert, but I personally don’t believe there’s any short cut to fitness and trimming up. Just plain old hard work and sweat.

Gazza M

no arguement there. as i said, lifting 4 times a week and 1 intense cardio session is where i'm at. i'm not advocating fasting as a magic bullet. it could have minimal effect for all i know. but i'm always open-minded and willing to try things before writing them off

Rex

Think that is sound, Gazza. Personally, I don’t feel weaker or that I have less energy in the gym when I train fasted. That is of course a possible downside to training fasted; that you have less energy and that your workouts therefore are less effective.

As for fasting, there is more and more research coming out on the health benefits of restricting your eating during the day to a window. What set off all this is actually the Nobel prize winners from this year in Biology and their research on the internal clocks most animals seem to have. Seems to be optimal to eat in an 8 to 9 hour window for our health, which has now been shown in several animal models. All the way up to a 12 hour window seems to bring significant health benefits though. Personally, I can’t do 8 or 9 hours. I don’t have a problem with restricting my food intake, but if I don’t get tea in the morning I feel my day pretty much sucks. 🙂
Oh, everything other than water counts as breaking your fast. Triggers all kinds of systems in our body when we eat or drink anything other than water.

Rex

I’d say that adherence is key when it comes to changing your body. There are multiple avenues you can choose to get great results, but you have to stick to sound eating and regular training with good intensity and effort.

Gazza M

Rex wrote:
Think that is sound, Gazza. Personally, I don’t feel weaker or that I have less energy in the gym when I train fasted. That is of course a possible downside to training fasted; that you have less energy and that your workouts therefore are less effective.

As for fasting, there is more and more research coming out on the health benefits of restricting your eating during the day to a window. What set off all this is actually the Nobel prize winners from this year in Biology and their research on the internal clocks most animals seem to have. Seems to be optimal to eat in an 8 to 9 hour window for our health, which has now been shown in several animal models. All the way up to a 12 hour window seems to bring significant health benefits though. Personally, I can’t do 8 or 9 hours. I don’t have a problem with restricting my food intake, but if I don’t get tea in the morning I feel my day pretty much sucks. 🙂
Oh, everything other than water counts as breaking your fast. Triggers all kinds of systems in our body when we eat or drink anything other than water.

Black or green tea without any additives won't break it either. It doesn't trigger an insulin spike, which is the thing that breaks the fast. I do plain green tea in the mornings to keep me sane

100% agree that consistency is vital regardless of your eating or training plan. Yo yoing between different methods is a recipe for failure

goon

So basically if you eat lunch at 12 and dinner by 7 and keep all eating between that time, you're golden? That sounds very manageable to me, I'm not too far off that as it is. Just need to cut out the odd snack.

Gazza M

Essentially, yes. 18 hours fasting and 6 hours feeding is the common ratio to aim for. As rex said if you're not really a morning eater, this kind of eating pattern might suit you. Obviously meeting all your macronutrient needs during your feeding window is key as well

Rex

Unfortunately, green or black tea DOES count, as does coffee. It doesn't trigger insulin, but it starts other mechanisms.

Has no impact on fat loss though; I'm purely talking about optimal health benefits.

goon

Yep, I skip breakfast regularly. How does this reconcile with the idea that breakfast is the most important meal of the day though? Is that a myth or the benefits overstated?

Burnwinter

This all sounds about right, though it's a bit more like hard work than what I do. I'm 6'2" and 90kg, so I'm ballpark to some of you guys.

Don't really worry about muscle growth but I do a 15 minute self-weights workout daily which always feels like a huge benefit for not much effort.

I need to keep to a nett 1500-2000 calories per day (adjusted for cardio usually swimming, sometimes cycling) to maintain. At the moment I reckon I'm 5-10kg overweight. Given I don't carry much muscle my ideal weight is probably close to 80kg.

From experience I will reliably cut weight at about 0.5-1kg per week if I keep it strictly to 1500 per day, or do two days per week of 500 calorie fasts, ₂₀₀₀ the rest. Weight loss is strictly a numbers game I find, and winning it is about being boring and adjusting where necessary. If I have 500 extra the night before, I skip breakfast the day after etc.

I typically gain weight when I start to drink more regularly, or stop paying attention during a busy patch.

Fitness and different muscle groups obviously depend on the details of your routine a lot, but I don't worry that much about it to be honest.

Gazza M

Rex wrote:
Unfortunately, green or black tea DOES count, as does coffee. It doesn't trigger insulin, but it starts other mechanisms.

Has no impact on fat loss though; I'm purely talking about optimal health benefits.

It does trigger other bodily phenomena, mainly via the caffeine component, but as its almost calorie neutral it won't derail a fast

@[deleted] - that saying stems from the fact that you're in a fasted state upon waking, so the natural response is to feed. Nourishing your body isn't inherently wrong. however more and more literature has come out about the benefits of prolonging the fasted state

Rex

Fasting periods increase insuline sensitivity for one thing, which is good.

That breakfast is the most important meal of the day is definitely a myth. As I mentioned before, there may be benefits to a stricter thinking regarding meal timing when it comes to ability to build muscle, but even at that it is at best marginal. If you are an athlete where muscle mass is important it may be beneficial, but for everyday people it matters little. Need to make sure you get your macro and micro nutrients in each day though.

Daz

Breakfast is boss.

Tony Montana

Daz wrote:
Breakfast is boss.

Breakfast means to break a fast. So hell yes it's important whether it's at 7am or 12 PM.

Tony Montana

Gazza M wrote:
Or you're wrong 🙂

Yeah I was just trying to be a nuisance. I don't have a clue in reality.

arsedocmd

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180522-we-dont-need-nearly-as-much-protein-as-we-consume

Rex

We have to eat, right? And protein makes you feel full for longer than carbohydrates and fats. You absolutely need all 3 of these macronutrients, but if anything I'd say that we don't need nearly as many carbs as most people eat.
A good rule of thumb regarding protein intake is 1 gram per pound of body weight. Personally, I am aiming for roughly 2 grams per kg of bodyweight.

arsedocmd

your body can't utilise more than 20 gm protein at a time. True or False?

Rex

False.
And on a logical level it doesn't make sense either that our bodies wouldn't use the nutrients available when needed.

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