Your favourite player?: Page 7 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Your favourite player?

Biggus

Traditionally West Ham and Tottenham were the clubs who were idealistically devoted to playing "beautiful football" (to their detriment)- Whilst we were the ruthless pragmatists who lifted the trophies.
I long for those days again- Bring back the early 90's.

Ricky1985

kamikaze wrote:
ricky, if you think that bringing in young players will create some kind of loyalty that will make them stay here or accept lower wages, then you're wrong, and so is wenger.

Never said any such thing.

All I'm saying is it's stupid to think he's anywhere near as much of a West Ham fan as he is an Arsenal fan, when he's been at the club since he was 8 years old. He's obviously a proper Arsenal fan, just as much as me and you. Doesn't mean he won't move on one day if he can't fulfil his ambition here.

Burnwinter

He's not an Arsenal fan. He's an Arsenal player. It's difficult to imagine the tremendous psychological gulf between us and the club's players.

They may be loyal to Arsenal, but it's a categorically different loyalty.

Biggus

Indeed, not one of them gives a fuck about the club at the end of the day it's just a job.
As I always say:We're the club- Not the owners not the manager not the staff and not the players.

Burnwinter

I'd say it's a bit more like the difference between being a royalist and being a nob yourself.

Mirth

Biggus wrote:
Indeed, not one of them gives a fuck about the club at the end of the day it's just a job.
As I always say:We're the club- Not the owners not the manager not the staff and not the players.

Mmm...inspirational but not true, they make up the club as much as we do. Their relationship with the club is different and, in many ways, they have a deeper understanding of the good and the bad than we ever will.

[NB: I don't include berks like Kronke or Gazidis in this, I'm talking specifically about the people involved on a day to day basis]

Timbob

Enough of the broad strokes please. Footballers are people and they're all different.

Biggus

Yes GM but unless they're fans too one day their association with the club will come to an end- Ours won't.

Mirth

Biggus wrote:
Yes GM but unless they're fans too one day their association with the club will come to an end- Ours won't.

As an anonymous blob, you'd be correct but 'they' have greater influence in the direction a club moves and therefore a greater impact.

It' not one or the other, it's a collective effort.

Ricky1985

timBO! wrote:
Enough of the broad strokes please. Footballers are people and they're all different.

Precisely. How can Carl Jenkinson be considered no different to Emmanuel Adebayor?

Mirth

Lagos wrote:
That they they have greater influence doesn't correlate to loyalty though.

Was responding to Biggus' post and nothing more.

goon

It's hardly crazy to assume that some players become emotionally invested in the club too. Believe it or not, most footballers actually love football and are football fans too. It's only natural to become a supporter of the club you're committed to.

The main difference is that, when they've had enough or think they can do better elsewhere, they'll fuck off without a second thought and become supporters of their new clubs.

kamikaze

Ricky1985 wrote:
Never said any such thing.

didnt mean to put words in your mouth. wenger did believe this, though. but none of the kids he's produced are as loyal to the club as thierry and robert and that speaks volumes. just win, play sexy football and pay the best players well. we don't do any of these.

yuv

Biggus wrote:
At least Ricky doesn't appeal to blind faith or other such bollocks, he usually gives a reasonable explanation for his opinions.

Tried to make it as reasonable as possible. The blind faith fans, IMO, is not a bad example, and is not "an appeal to faith" (unless any mention of any phenomenon in the world would be an appeal identifying with it's object). It is using the extreme as a border line in analysis. Common method of reasoning, I'd say.
I'm still a bit surprised that you could agree with Arsene = Arsenal, and that someone who was attached to the former could be considered a gooner without protest. That's why I mentioned this (meant no disrespect, if for some reason you took it this way).

kamikaze

Ricky1985 wrote:
Precisely. How can Carl Jenkinson be considered no different to Emmanuel Adebayor?

not to mention that jenko's not good, while adebayor is good (when he feels like trying). i give precisely zero weight as to whether a player came from arsenal reserves or is a childhood gooner, as should our management.

Ricky1985

Sorry for the no reply, yuv. Only been on my phone, will read properly later.

Xcdude24

Biggus wrote:
Traditionally West Ham and Tottenham were the clubs who were idealistically devoted to playing "beautiful football" (to their detriment)- Whilst we were the ruthless pragmatists who lifted the trophies.
I long for those days again- Bring back the early 90's.

Think the fact that Adams is from Romford probably has more to do with it

Biggus

yuv wrote:
I'm still a bit surprised that you could agree with Arsene = Arsenal,

I said I agreed- because it's true, if a manager is there so long he can't fail to leave a deep impression on the club and especially on younger supporters who know no other one (the children of the revolution).
But I didn't say I was happy with the situation, it depresses me that we are now identified with him indelibly not only in in the minds of our supporters but also the media and other supporters.

yuv

Biggus wrote:
I said I agreed- because it's true, if a manager is there so long he can't fail to leave a deep impression on the club and especially on younger supporters who know no other one (the children of the revolution).

I didn't doubt you were unhappy with the situation. Note that the context of this little exchange was trying to clarify what a gooner means (I thought it means different things to some of us; see some of the examples, your friend Fabregas, etc.). I don't doubt any of what you or Ricky said about impressions, the current situation, or indeed the apparent identity, particularly, as you say, in the eyes of the very young.

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