Nuri Sahin: Page 59 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Nuri Sahin

Tony Montana

qs! wrote:
y va marquer wrote:
We only allowed Song to leave, didn't have any realistic workable alternative to selling Van Persie.

Not allowing van Persie get to this summer with no new contract was a workable alternative. Wengers as much to blame for that as any one.

He was never obliged to sign any contract last summer and it would not have been in his interests.

Wenger and the board can't force RVP to sign contracts when they want.

Ray

Ricky1985 wrote:
No. He doesn't want to work hard with a player, and give him a central role in the team, when he has no control whatsoever over where he ends up at the end of the season.

Wenger has been thinking long term for the past 7 years and he has ended up trophyless and all his players leaving. And he wouldnt be given a central role, he would be cover for wilshere and arteta, and in certain games he will be playing with them. Its not ideal not knowing where he will end up next season, but having someone of the quality of sahin to pick from in a season where a trophy is a must proves wenger should be thinking short term.

And saying we arent a feeder club for real madrid is futile considering in the last year we have sold two captains and our best players, two to barca. Our reputation/image is tarnished and means fuck all, especially to wenger.

Tony Montana

squallkid wrote:
I agree with Wenger here.

If we can't keep him, I don't want him.

We're not a training ground for Madrid and Sahin by all accounts love it at Madrid.

If pool thinks he's gonna stick around there and play for a club that's 8th in the league instead of the champions of Spain then they are in for a shock come May.

We're a training ground for a lot of clubs though, particularly Barcelona and Man City.

In regards to Liverpool's shiteness, if we're not careful we'll find ourselves at that level. And with Sahin, they could improve.

JazzG

I was waiting for that, also for your information Tony those players are sold at profit! 😃

Mirth

Bumper Rex wrote:
General Mirth wrote:
Wthout an option to buy, that's a ridiculous sum to pay for one season. What is up with Liverpool and stupid transfers?

Most here, at least two weeks ago, were prepared to give up a lot less than that to keep RVP to his contract and let him walk for free next summer.

Personally, I'd take Sahin at £10m for a season. A lot can happen during a year. Arsenal fans, more than most, have in the last few years learned that what the player wants is extremely important when a decision has to be made about his future. Sahin here for a year and it is quite possible that he himself would want to stay instead of going back to Madrid and a bit part role.

You can't seriously be comparing van Persie's situation to Sahin.

van Persie's coming off an incredible season, he was settled at the club and the entire team was already built around him.

Meanwhile, Sahin's recovering from a long term injury, adapting to a new league and there's no guarantee that he' stay on. You're right, a players wishes are important but Madrid are one of the last clubs in the world to give into some prat telling them what to do. Case in point, Sahin wanted to come to Arsenal and not Liverpool. And it's precisely because a lot can happen in one year that makes it a pretty big gamble at 10m, it's just as likely that a good season at Arsenal will give Sahin a boost to go and fight for his place in Madrid.

squallkid

If you want to interpret it that way Tony, we've sold players to loads of other clubs are we their training ground as well?

Man Utd sold Madrid Beckham,Ronaldo and Van nistelrooy are they Madrid's training ground?

Taking up a player from Madrid on loan and giving him 38 games then sending him back to Madrid is for a midtable club in Spain. We're not going to train up someone else's player for a year then send him back. That is just small time.

Ricky1985

SamDaGooner wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
No. He doesn't want to work hard with a player, and give him a central role in the team, when he has no control whatsoever over where he ends up at the end of the season.

Wenger has been thinking long term for the past 7 years and he has ended up trophyless and all his players leaving. And he wouldnt be given a central role, he would be cover for wilshere and arteta, and in certain games he will be playing with them. Its not ideal not knowing where he will end up next season, but having someone of the quality of sahin to pick from in a season where a trophy is a must proves wenger should be thinking short term.

And saying we arent a feeder club for real madrid is futile considering in the last year we have sold two captains and our best players, two to barca. Our reputation/image is tarnished and means fuck all, especially to wenger.

If he's only "cover for Arteta and Wilshere" then he's obviously not the earth shattering player your moaning would suggest he is.

He's a good player, no doubt at all about that, and we'd be better off with him than without him, but that doesn't mean he's worth paying stupid amounts for, for one season and then having to rely on Real Madrid, the least reasonable club on the planet no less, being reasonable at the end of the season.

Either we buy him outright, or agree a deal to buy him outright at the end of the season, or it's no deal. For me it is, anyway.

Tony Montana

squallkid wrote:
If you want to interpret it that way Tony, we've sold players to loads of other clubs are we their training ground as well?

Man Utd sold Madrid Beckham,Ronaldo and Van nistelrooy are they Madrid's training ground?

Taking up a player from Madrid on loan and giving him 38 games then sending him back to Madrid is for a midtable club in Spain. We're not going to train up someone else's player for a year then send him back. That is just small time.

And why should we train up several young players only for them to move upwards to bigger clubs who actually win trophies? That is just as small time. We're a selling club.

Beckham, Ronaldo and Van Nistelrooy actually won trophies at United. A lot of the players we sold won sweet FA.

At least pre 2007-08 we sold players who either won trophies for us already or were not good enough. Now we sell players who have won nothing and are still in their peak.

Tony Montana

JazzG wrote:
I was waiting for that, also for your information Tony those players are sold at profit! 😃

Selling Club. Wooohooo! 😃

y va marquer

squallkid wrote:
If you want to interpret it that way Tony, we've sold players to loads of other clubs are we their training ground as well?

Man Utd sold Madrid Beckham,Ronaldo and Van nistelrooy are they Madrid's training ground?

Taking up a player from Madrid on loan and giving him 38 games then sending him back to Madrid is for a midtable club in Spain. We're not going to train up someone else's player for a year then send him back. That is just small time.

If you thought outside of cliches for just a while you could maybe examine why there may have been some benefit to us in signing Sahin on loan.
Not saying it was the best deal available or without it's flaws but there would definitely have been some plusses to compensate.

squallkid

Tony Montana wrote:
And why should we train up several young players only for them to move upwards to bigger clubs who actually win trophies? That is just as small time. We're a selling club.

Beckham, Ronaldo and Van Nistelrooy actually won trophies at United. A lot of the players we sold won sweet FA.

At least pre 2007-08 we sold players who either won trophies for us already or were not good enough. Now we sell players who have won nothing and are still in their peak.

Think we would have kept Cesc if we had won a few trophies? Barca's argument would have been the same as Madrid's with Ronaldo, he's won all he can and now it's time to move on.

Maybe those players are part of the reason we haven't won anything.

Song and Nasri both had stinkers in the league cup final and went missing in crunch CL games and fa cup games in the latter rounds. To me the only players that can bitch about us not winning anything are the ones that turned up when it mattered, i.e Van Persie scoring in the league cup final, Walcott scoring in the FA cup semi final and against Barcelona and Fabregas.

We had too many soft losers who moaned about trophies but never had the bottle to come and drag us over the line kicking and screaming, they've left to other teams that win trophies but they won't be the main reason why they win trophies.

Ricky1985

By the way, Real Madrid really are the real villains of the piece here. They have no need for Sahin, are signing yet another £30m+ player in Modric to put in front of him, another obstacle between Sahin and the regular football he needs, and yet they won't agree to a reasonable offer to let the kid move on with his career? Pack of cunts.

The only thing more maddening than them are the stupid kids that go there and waste their careers.

Mirth

squallkid wrote:
Tony Montana wrote:
And why should we train up several young players only for them to move upwards to bigger clubs who actually win trophies? That is just as small time. We're a selling club.

Beckham, Ronaldo and Van Nistelrooy actually won trophies at United. A lot of the players we sold won sweet FA.

At least pre 2007-08 we sold players who either won trophies for us already or were not good enough. Now we sell players who have won nothing and are still in their peak.

Think we would have kept Cesc if we had won a few trophies? Barca's argument would have been the same as Madrid's with Ronaldo, he's won all he can and now it's time to move on.

Maybe those players are part of the reason we haven't won anything.

Song and Nasri both had stinkers in the league cup final and went missing in crunch CL games and fa cup games in the latter rounds. To me the only players that can bitch about us not winning anything are the ones that turned up when it mattered, i.e Van Persie scoring in the league cup final, Walcott scoring in the FA cup semi final and against Barcelona and Fabregas.

We had too many soft losers who moaned about trophies but never had the bottle to come and drag us over the line kicking and screaming, they've left to other teams that win trophies but they won't be the main reason why they win trophies.

Those players aren't the reason why we're still trophyless.

squallkid

y va marquer wrote:
If you thought outside of cliches for just a while you could maybe examine why there may have been some benefit to us in signing Sahin on loan.
Not saying it was the best deal available or without it's flaws but there would definitely have been some plusses to compensate.

Cliches are my favourite thing🙂

I'm not saying I don't want Sahin, he would make us a better team but I can see why we didn't sign him. If the club doesn't think it's a good deal then so be it.

Timbob

Wherever he ends up, be it with us or Liverpool, I'm gonna be very interested to see exactly how good he is. He best be some player the way some of you lot have gone on about him.

Ray

[/quote]

If he's only "cover for Arteta and Wilshere" then he's obviously not the earth shattering player your moaning would suggest he is.

Either we buy him outright, or agree a deal to buy him outright at the end of the season, or it's no deal. For me it is, anyway.
[/quote]

It's not stupid amounts though, its his wages, which any club would expect to pay and a fee to get him on loan, with some reports saying 2.8m and others 5m neither of which would hurt us considering we are giving away players like vela, denilson and bendtner way below their market price due to desperation.

And either way even if there is a buy out clause he might want to go back anyway, and if there isnt we can make an offer, at the end of the day if he likes it here he most likely will stay and if he doesnt he will go back. Ridiculous assumptions and long term "thinking" has cost us too many times.

squallkid

I'm not saying that they are the only reason we are still trophyless but it's a bit rich of Nasri etc to come out and bitch about us being trophyless when they bottled it when it really mattered.

Mirth

SamDaGooner wrote:
It's not stupid amounts though, its his wages, which any club would expect to pay and a fee to get him on loan, with some reports saying 2.8m and others 5m neither of which would hurt us considering we are giving away players like vela, denilson and bendtner way below their market price due to desperation.

And either way even if their is a buy out clause he might want to go back anyway, and if there isnt we can make an offer, at the end of the day if he likes it here he most likely will stay and if he doesnt he will go back. Ridiculous assumptions and long term "thinking" has cost us too many times.

I'd rather Sahin than no one, even on those terms.

But it's not wrong to pull out of this deal because it's doesn't represent 'good value'. The fact that there are are so many possible scenarios as to what might happen in the space of 9 months is enough to not shell out that much money if we do have another replacement lined up.

y va marquer

Ricky1985 wrote:
By the way, Real Madrid really are the real villains of the piece here. They have no need for Sahin, are signing yet another £30m+ player in Modric to put in front of him, another obstacle between Sahin and the regular football he needs, and yet they won't agree to a reasonable offer to let the kid move on with his career? Pack of cunts.

The only thing more maddening than them are the stupid kids that go there and waste their careers.

Read a comment made by Mourinho the other day that made me think that he's certainly not the manager for Sahin.
He compared him less than favourably to Benzema.
Praising Bemzema for his strength of character and determination to make it, and then saying Sahin is no Benzema.

He wants the finished article, he's got no time for developing younger players or giving them a place in his team.

Gazza M

When asked about whether Arsenal would push a move through, Wenger said: "At the moment, it is not alive. Can you be not alive and not dead? It is possible."

gah, torture. also gave his usual spiel about only moving for a 'special' player in the next week.

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