SPACE: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

SPACE

Klaus

What should worry them is that they've just spent a billion dollars and a solid decade on sending a single, unmanned spacecraft into low Earth orbit, having failed in their three previous attempts. It would be a tremendous achievement if they managed to do it regularly and perhaps even started shipping astronauts to the ISS within the next ten years.

kamikaze

space travel doesnt seem like it would lend itself well to a market model. huge barriers to entry, huge fixed costs, very long timeframe to any sort of profitability, and there aren't enough "consumers" to create an effective market. we'd be better off having a single space agency for all humanity, pooling our resources and getting the best minds on the planet working together.

Biggus

You've been watching too much Star Trek Kami, mankind couldn't scratch their arses in unison, we just don't think that way.

Klaus

I think what'll happen in the future is that private companies such as SpaceX will take over a lot of the maintenance and routine flights in the lower Earth orbit while NASA and other established space agencies can focus solely on advanced space exploration and scientific research. Obama has stated repeatedly in the last couple of years that he wants the private sector to take that stuff off their hands. It's why the American government pay SpaceX hundreds of millions in seed money for launch service contracts. Think it'll stop there though. Private companies, no matter how many billionaire playboys there are who fancy a trip into space, just don't have the technique, the resources or the 50+ years of experience to get seriously involved.

Sirius

I guess we'll see how far private companies will go.

For now SpaceX has has done well. They've secured a $ 1.6 billion contract with NASA for 12 further cargo missions to the ISS. The plan is to eventually carry astronauts inside the Dragon capsule. If I remember correctly the first Falcon Heavy launch is scheduled for 2013. This is a rocket that will be powerful enough to reach Mars. From an economic/business point of view, all of it will save NASA a ton of money, but it doesn't stop there. The aim is to further reduce the cost of getting material into Space by something like a factor of ten. The key to it being reusability.

Exciting times if you ask me. To be honest I don't care who does what as long as things get done. NASA is still top dog obviously, and I can't wait to see some of the first pictures the James Webb Telescope will take. Not to mention Orion and countless other projects. Should be amazing.

Falcon Heavy promo video for anyone interested in seeing it here:

kamikaze

is it going to save money? how is spacex going to be more efficient than nasa? they're hiring a lot of former nasa guys, so it's basically the same people. where is the competitive pressure going to come from? i'm skeptical.

it's like privatising the subway or bus lines - unless it was just a debacle to begin with, usually you end up with costs going up and service/quality/maintenance going down. military contractors are another example.

Burnwinter

I've worked extensively with some of the major public satellite imagery / sensed data sales companies who operate in a similar market. Similar in the sense that their profit is bound up with shooting complex machinery into space and hoping someone wants to pay for something related to that, anyway.

They are large in valuation relative to overall staff numbers, mainly not run or staffed by geniuses, bound up with administrivia, and utterly dependent on huge government contracts to survive in a competitive market where it's difficult for them to differentiate themselves, one in which the product is pretty much a discretionary extra, apart from for Defence purposes.

http://investor.digitalglobe.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=70788&p=irol-newsArticle&id=1691979

Couple of them are in major financial strife fighting over the latest NGA contract in the US. It's kill or be killed.

Klaus

If anyone is interested, NASA has a live stream of Venus's transit across the Sun here: http://sunearthday.nasa.gov/webcasts/nasaedge/

It's a pretty cool phenomenon. There won't be another transit until 2117.

Rex

Saw it 8 years ago. Been there, done that.

y va marquer

Cloud and rain forecasted 🙁

Burnwinter

It's as grey as imaginable and pissing down here. I'd have more luck viewing the Passage of Uranus.

Klaus

Well, the stream I linked to works. It's pretty good too. You can actually see a couple of sunspots on some of the images.

Burnwinter

Yep, I'm relying on the internet now. Shame not to view it in reality though, I was all set to glue some cardboard together and everything.

Klaus

BBC Horizon showed an episode called "The transit of venus" yesterday. Haven't seen it myself yet but I've heard it's well worth watching. I think people in England should be able to watch it on BBC's website. It's not particularly hard to find a rip on most torrent trackers though.

banduan

Missed the transit of Venus. Going for the transit of Serena.

y va marquer

Klaus

That is awesome.

Sirius

Lovely.

Best I can do. The Pleiades (star cluster), Moon, Jupiter and Venus.

Some facts.

A day on Venus is longer than a year on Venus. That's because the planet rotates on it's axis veeery slowly. The Russians have "landed" twice on the planet, during the 70's. Their probe's didn't last long before succumbing to the immense heat and pressure on Venus' surface.

Klaus

NASA captured a huge coronal mass ejection the other day:

Biggus

@ Sirius, the moon Jupiter and Venus are shitholes, it's the earth that looks beautiful in your picture.

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