SPACE

Sirius

Somewhat hesitant creating this, but here it goes...

Been inspired by today's SpaceX story. Chances are most of you have heard about it as it's been all over the news etc.
SpaceX have successfully launched a Dragon capsule into orbit using the Falcon 9 rocket. If everything else goes to plan, they will be the first privately-owned company to dock with the International Space Station before returning to Earth. It's a huge achievement. Hopefully this paves the way for many more missions like it, and as crazy as it sounds eventually one that takes humans all the way to Mars and what not.

Liftoff:

[video=vimeo]

Pics:

http://spacexlaunch.zenfolio.com/p208064181/h1ec15bb6#h1ec15bb6

I figured we could use this place to post anything space related. Whether that be some Hubble pics, TED talks, Einstein quotes, comics, documentaties or you just want to make fun of Dr. Brian Cox or have been abducted by aliens...post away!

Biggus

I thought this thread was going to be about our trophy room.

Mirth

Biggus wrote:
I thought this thread was going to be about our trophy room.

Mirth

Sirius wrote:
Hopefully this paves the way for many more missions like it, and as crazy as it sounds eventually one that takes humans all the way to Mars and what not.

Doesn't it take nearly a year to reach Mars?

Klaus

And an exceptional amount of fuel. Ion thrusters might solve both problems in the future but there's still the question of radiation. People will probably never colonize Mars for the simple reason that it has no global magnetic field and a very thin atmosphere. Too much cosmic rays and radiation get through. If people go there it'll be for scientific research mainly, but the radiation they'd get exposed to on the trip over alone would be way beyond any current NASA calculations for the acceptable dose an astronaut might receive during an entire lifetime.

Klaus

On the subject of space - I posted this in the news thread a couple of days ago: http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/33-stunning-photos-of-earth-taken-by-an-astronaut

Brilliant pictures. I'd buy the book instantly.

Captain

Saw this recently.

Mirth

Would they even want to go to Mars for research? Seems to me they have a pretty good idea of what's going on there through those midget robots they keep sending across and it'll probably provide a thorough picture in time. And it's easy enough to observe it from Earth.

Also, possibly a stupid question, but are you exposed to radiation even if you're inside the spaceship?

Klaus

Think it's been said that the main benefit will be that they can finally take a closer look at the oceans since that's where life must've developed if it did develop at all on the planet in the past. It's pretty appealing when you think of it. They could prove that organic life is not something that's unique for Earth.

General Mirth wrote:
Also, possibly a stupid question, but are you exposed to radiation even if you're inside the spaceship?

You're always exposed to radiation. It moves through most matter. The problem with ionizing radiation is that it destroys the dna in living bodies. The rays pass through the cells and cut it in pieces. The stronger the radiation the more rays. The more rays the more likely they'll hit the nucleus of a cell, and the more nuclei that gets hit the bigger the risk for radiation diseases and cancer.

Sirius

You'd be surprised how big some of the Mars rovers are. Curiosity is about the size of a car.

As far as research...absolutely yes they would want to go there for research. There are caves on Mars that are nigh on impossible to explore with current technology, and that could hold some very valuable information.

Interestingly, these caves could also provide protection from the solar radiation astronauts would be exposed to on the surface of Mars. On the radiation inside a spaceship question...this is just guesswork, but yeah I think you'd be exposed to it even inside a spaceship. After all, it is constantly being bombarded by solar particles. Although the amount you're exposed to would be greatly reduced compared to that during a spacewalk for example, there's no way you're 100% protected.

Edit: Klaus' answer > mine.

SimplyThePest

if we ever get to the point of being able to engage in long distance space travel, i don't know if a conventional 'propulsion' system will be the way it is done. i've read some stuff that has suggested that the manipulation of time/space/gravity ahead of a craft (effectively sucking it forward), so to speak, is probably the only way interstellar travel would become viable. all very interesting stuff.

Burnwinter

Klaus wrote:
General Mirth wrote:
Also, possibly a stupid question, but are you exposed to radiation even if you're inside the spaceship?

You're always exposed to radiation. It moves through most matter. The problem with ionizing radiation is that it destroys the dna in living bodies. The rays pass through the cells and cut it in pieces. The stronger the radiation the more rays. The more rays the more likely they'll hit the nucleus of a cell, and the more nuclei that gets hit the bigger the risk for radiation diseases and cancer.

Remembered learning about alpha, beta and gamma particles in high school physics, and how the alphas are relatively massy and stopped by any solid matter, betas somewhat less so and gamma rays are high frequency electromagnetic radiation that can only be significantly attenuated even by heavy solid barriers with the right sort of coefficients.

Googled 'what thickness of concrete protects from gamma radiation?' and there's a decent discussion on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_protection

So basically lots of concrete with a layer of water-cooled lead on the inside. Not a combination you're likely to shoot into space as payload I'm guessing 😃

Captain

😆

Burnwinter

BREAKING: BILLIONAIRE DESIGNS DEVICE TO SHOOT CONCRETE INTO SPACE, PREEMPTIVELY DECLINES NOBEL PRIZE

Klaus

Burnwinter wrote:
Googled 'what thickness of concrete protects from gamma radiation?' and there's a decent discussion on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_protection

So basically lots of concrete with a layer of water-cooled lead on the inside. Not a combination you're likely to shoot into space as payload I'm guessing 😃

😆

And even with extremely heavy shields you'd be exposed to extracurricular circumstances that would make them obsolete and even put the entire mission at risk. Say a heavy solar flare when you're traveling outside the protective region of the earth's magnetic field, for instance. Add that to the significant health risk and factor in that a project like this would cost around 600 billion dollars to realise (the entire moon landing operation with every Apollo mission accounted for ended on roughly 25 billion I think) and it's pretty unlikely we'll experience it in our lifetime. Just getting the equipment into space would cost more than some countries are worth.

kamikaze

doesnt make much sense to send humans to mars in the near future. it's a 1.5yr roundtrip (or thereabouts) and like klaus said, the additional cost of shielding them (and their equipment) from radiation and solar flares, and keeping them alive would be prohibitive, and the benefits of sending humans as opposed to robots/drones would be marginal. the only way i can see it being done is if china says to hell with the astronauts' health and sends a crew there for nationalistic purposes.

i do think we'll see a robot/drone drilling into the oceans of europa at some point in our lifetimes. that's the most likely source of life in the solar system - should be interesting to see what we find there.

asajoseph

Alien is coming true.

I fucking told you, and nobody listened.

Burnwinter

It'd be quicker to change the definition of 'human' than to work out how to send our current meatsacks into space. You know, do the whole consciousness-as-redundant-array-of-self-replicating-nanobots thing.

Mirth

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/science_tech/the-end-of-the-milky-way-galaxy-as-we-know-it

http://www.nature.com/news/andromeda-on-collision-course-with-the-milky-way-1.10765

Sirius

Amazing that two galaxies containing billions upon billions of stars will merge together so "smoothly". It might be the end of the Milky Way and Andromeda, but it'll be the beginning of a new galaxy altogether.

SimplyThePest wrote:
if we ever get to the point of being able to engage in long distance space travel, i don't know if a conventional 'propulsion' system will be the way it is done. i've read some stuff that has suggested that the manipulation of time/space/gravity ahead of a craft (effectively sucking it forward), so to speak, is probably the only way interstellar travel would become viable. all very interesting stuff.

Yeah, our current propulsion technology will not cut it if you're talking about lightyears. Bypassing those distances with traversable wormholes is equally difficult because the whole thing is still very much theoretical physics.

Best thing to do would be to take it a step at a time and explore our own solar system further. Mars and Europa are fascinating. If money is the problem then there is plenty of incentive out there. The first trillionaires will be those that figure out how to tap into the resources available in outer space. I wouldn't put it past people like Elon Musk and Peter Diamandis in making at least heavy inroads towards the goals they have set themselves. The former is still only 40 years old, and with the recent success of the Dragon mission seems to be walking the walk. Doubt radiation worries them too much.