the level of disillusionment, resignation and helplessness is reaching new lows. we all know what the problems are, and no one in power is going to change it.

i'm personally not going to spend a dime on arsenal until things change. meaningless, i suppose, but then so is voting.

Ron Burgundy wrote:

When Henry and Cesc left, they weren't carrying us to the same extent as Robin is at the moment.

They both left off the back of poor seasons, Henry because he was injured and overplayed, Fabregas because he had no interest in Arsenal any more.

By the time Fabregas fucked off he was well and truly shot of us and we all knew it ... the difference with Robin is that up until that "whatever happens" in his speech the other day, he gave indications he was committed to Arsenal.

I'll be shattered if he doesn't sign, but it's all about what he wants, and not when he leaves. If he won't sign, he should be sold. Players that don't want to be here damage us, and we've seen that time and time again.

The club has failed to make the necessary adjustments after losing players in the past. Back in 2005, we started the season and played until Christmas without a squad good enough to finish 4th, and went into the final game of the season without CL qualification in our own hands.

Likewise, last season, we started the season without a squad good enough to finish 4th, though this time made the adjustments a day or two before deadline day, after we'd all had a vision of an Arsenal so weak that they'd have been roundabout mid-table. Still, despite having van Persie, we had an absolutely atrocious midfield that more or less depended on the presence of one player. And had van Persie got injured for a month or so at any point, does anyone really think we'd have finished top 4? The guy played all 38 league games this season. Forget scoring all those goals, that's the most implausible stat of the lot!

And the fact that we usually manage to scrape into the Champions League is not much of a platitude to those who still harbour an ambition that Arsenal might actually win the thing again one day (it ain't immoral to be champions, after all). The most important question is not how to qualify for the CL, for most of us anyway, it's what moves could Arsenal (not some other club with a different approach) make this summer to get themselves into the mix for the title next season. Keeping van Persie is the biggest part of that, IMO.

For me, the departure of van Persie is not something of the sort of magnitude we've encountered too many times before. We've had our best players leave in the past, and some very good ones on top, but only really Cesc has been as pivotal to our side upon his departure, and I don't think many would argue that we've become a better team, and especially not a better unit in the middle without him.

What would happen if we lost van Persie next season? For me, there's a simple question of where the goals would come from. Can we trust the existing crowd to combine for an extra. 40-odd goals next season (just in the league) with Podolski's help? Personally, I don't. Even if we made our usual 2nd-tier signing from L1, this squad will end up weaker than it was before, because that's exactly the way we operate.

Anyway, all this is moot, because it's pretty obvious he's gone. If he wanted to stay, and there was anything we could say to convince him, we'd have got it done before the Euros. I'm not looking forward to his empty platitudes about being a gooner at heart, and thanking the club for all they've done. He can fuck off like all the rest.

Indeed, here's another top player who was well disposed towards us, all he asked was that he was respected in terms of money, and that his ambition was matched, but Wenger and Gazidis conspired to shit in his face, these cunts won't be happy till we've a small wage bill and we're settled into mid-table comfort.

Ricky1985 wrote:

If the club won't learn from last summer and last season - as God awful as they both were - then what's the point mate?

No point of getting too attached when the whole thing's doomed to fail from the start.

The trick Ricky is to participate but not be a part of having a gallows sense of humour and a very thick skin (thick head some would say) also helps......

I have no illusions about us actually replacing Van Persie with equivalent or better, Asa - I don't think there's any way that's realistic.

If he goes we'll probably field Podolski central, call Campbell up (if he gets his permit), sign a second tier niche striker to sub on for a bit of long ball from time to time, and then Wenger will shuffle the deck in midfield and on the wings until we have a setup that can scrape a few goals.

It will be a season similar to 09-10 in other words, but with less quality available.

If van Persie leaves, I think we're talking more 05-06 than 09-10, personally. There's too much quality in the league at around our level for us to dick around.

On the one hand I agree mate, on the other I'm consistently amazed by what passes for urgency at Arsenal.

How many times in recent years have we been absolutely sure we would strengthen and then we haven't? Winter window 09-10 stands out, actually ... we were all quite convinced a striker would be signed, but £7m and a gentle backrub for Aulas was too much to pay for Chamakh.

I'd back my own prediction with the added proviso that we might see a record signing in January if we're sitting behind two or three of Spurs, Newcastle and Chelsea at that time.

It sounds like we're predicting the same thing? Though I suspect you're getting 09/10 confused with 08/09?

Think I have it right ... 09-10 was the season when Van Persie and Bendtner were both injured for long stretches and we were desperate for any credible player to lead the line, playing Arshavin as a striker, relying on Fabregas as a goalscorer etc.

We should have signed a striker that year in January but Wenger couldn't be bothered.

What you're both saying is that Wenger plays us just like a musical instrument, giving a bit more when needed and backing off when too much is given- all carefully calculated just to achieve the desired outcome.

Oh - thought you were talking more about 08/09, cos we finished comfortably in 3rd in 09/10. 08/09 we finished on our own in 4th, but drew 8 of 11 between mid dec & early Feb, and Arshavin was a massive factor in pulling us over the line.

Yes, I suppose I'm thinking about a combination of the scripts of both seasons if you look at it that way. Not that it's much of a stretch leaping from one set of scenes to the other.

qs! wrote:
Ron Burgundy wrote:

When Henry and Cesc left, they weren't carrying us to the same extent as Robin is at the moment.

They both left off the back of poor seasons, Henry because he was injured and overplayed, Fabregas because he had no interest in Arsenal any more.

Yeah I know, that's my point. For different reasons, they weren't carrying the team at the time they were sold.

Apparently a few Journos have reported now that he's staying. Doubt it's based on anything sadly

Journo on Hold The Back Page said that he's had it on good authority that we will hold him to his contract if he wont sign a new one.

Wenger said as much a while back during one of his press conferences.

asajoseph wrote:

Apparently a few Journos have reported now that he's staying. Doubt it's based on anything sadly

Of course they will, it's been a week since they said the talks went badly. Need a new angle.

Incredibly predictable.