The Age of Responsibility: Luck, choice and the welfare state by Yascha Mounk. 
I'm about half way through and so far finding it a very strong  critique of the way in which the overly narrow conceptualisation of responsibility has (negatively) transformed the welfare state.
I'm reading it because it ties in closely with my PhD topic but it's a good read more generally for anyone interested in moral philosophy/politics.

Interesting, bit of Baader-Meinhof there. I just heard of Yascha Mounk for the first time via an article in the Atlantic that I thought was pretty pernicious.

Yeah similar to me I became aware of the book from another article I was reading.
What about that article was pernicious Burnsy? 

It was this one Daz:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/

Basically I think the research being reported relies on shit logic.

Because "political correctness" is a floating signifier that's been around roughly since the 90s, used strictly to refer to those parts of the minority left politics of culture viewed dimly by the mainstream.

Pointing out that people view the abstraction with hostility is redundant, using it as an argument against the current fronts of political transformation is shit and reactionary, even if they're mainly discussed in venues like university campuses where indicators of wealth and privilege tend to soar. There was a time in the US when women's suffrage or dismantling Jim Crow were unpopular minority views.

I just read that article and I think I agree with your concerns. Political correctness is now such a loaded term that has lost clear meaning in itself. I was only just having a parallel conversation with my partner about this. My default now whenever I hear someone say they oppose/are concerned about pc is to ask them to be more specific about what they are concerned about.
I think the article is trying to make a similar point (ie we need to understand the deeper and more diverse reasons why people react to pc the way they currently do) but doesn't really do it very well.
Anyways, his book is much more rigorous and interesting. From what I know of your politics/thought I reckon you might find it interesting.

1988: Has political correctness gone too far? Yes (but meaning calling women "Ms" or using the term "chairperson" etc)
2018: Has political correctness gone too far? Yes (but meaning eg using trans / nonbinary people's preferred pronouns)

I definitely feel irritable when I read dangerous, circular logic like this in The Atlantic, which sells itself as the flagship of US liberalism.

Political correctness it's an exaggerated mechanism of democracy. When you are pushing democracy to an absurd level, political correctness arises. It's a way of controlling the majority through minorities. If you say something negative about any small group in society that is different from the rest, you'll be automatically called a bigot. It's masked dictatorship.

Political correctness and basic decency are not the same thing. Suppression of dissident views is not something that democracy does through promoting basic decency. The term PC is not a valid basis for argument, because it is only used pejoratively to complain that bigoted views are not socially or institutionally accepted (which is pretty funny, because they very much are across the vast majority of institutions and social groups). Using non-discrimintory, non-exclusive, non-bigoted terms for other human beings and how they live their lives is not fundamentally political, or at least, it isn't any more political than anything else we do. It's not about being correct, it's about being inclusive and decent.

Democracy cannot be "pushed to absurd levels" because it doesn't work that way. There is no "level" of democracy or democratization that could be considered absurd. Additionally, the basic conception of who the minority are is wrong, as is the basic conception of the majority. It's not that unusual, most conceive of these ideas in a fundamentally erroneous and unproductive way.

Being a prick and then saying that you "dislike" political correctness is not the result of democracy masquerading as fascism, but intolerance masquerading as freedom.

A more correct way to talk about this would be that we do not democratize our society effectively enough. Where we once saw the monarch as the abstraction of the body politic, we have instead abstracted the body politic into a fucking survey. Democracy shouldn't just be filling out a bubble on a ballot, nor should it be majority rule, but when the survey is given power, the language it uses becomes political. There is no "correct", there is only recognition of the other as a critical subject, someone who feels and thinks and who reflexively images themselves just like you do, based on all outward forms of communication, including speech and written language. When the survey legitimizes some people and leaves out others, it is exclusive. Language should be changed. If that language, in turn, is also exclusive, it should be changed again. There isn't an end to it, it'll go on forever, because we go on forever, and language is just a part of us.

So when people say "where does it end?" They are asking the wrong question. That should simply be asking, "how can we do better?"

I think there's a few layers here, at least: discourse, power and the system, but the idea that "radicals on campus" are engaged in a dictatorship doesn't stack up, because they don't call the shots. 

I'm fond of this quote from Kierkegaard which explains fairly how truth is socially expressed dynamically, over time, in a process of which the custodianship goes to a shifting set of minority groups:  

“Truth always rests with the minority, and the minority is always stronger than the majority, because the minority is generally formed by those who really have an opinion, while the strength of a majority is illusory, formed by the gangs who have no opinion — and who, therefore, in the next instant (when it is evident that the minority is the stronger) assume its opinion… while truth again reverts to a new minority.”

It's harsh on the majority (the "gangs who have no opinion"), but it's true that learning means being open to the deeper thoughts and expertise of others.

The premise that what we'll hold to be true in the future always contends with what we currently hold to be true is a good way to understand why "the majority of people think PC is bad" without setting a value on (the nebulous) "PC" itself. That contention is normal, it's always been there, and almost everything we collectively celebrate had to be fought for in the past. 

I just finished Cixin Liu's Three-Body Problem trilogy. I don't know if I've ever read better science fiction. Liu weaves a narrative that spans 400 years, from the cultural revolution in China to the age of space colonisation. The second book, The Dark Forest, will go down in history as one of the finest works of the genre. The twist that explains its title is the best, and most horrifying, solution for the Fermi paradox I've ever seen.

Cool stuff. Love me some sci-fi. I've never read any Chinese fiction.

I'm currently reading Stalingrad by Antony Beevor and learning a lot about the Nazi's invasion of Soviet Russia that I didn't know before like the extent of the horrors that the civilians were exposed to. Neither side of the war gave a single fuck about them. Truly horrific stuff. It's a gripping and incredibly well-written book especially considering that not many details seem to be left out.

Am reading Doris Kearns Goodwin's, Leadership in Turbulent Times.
Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR and LBJ.
Conventional, even handed, well written, loaded with personal and leadership traits of these men, warts and all.
Am enjoying it very much.

Read Ben MacIntyre's The Spy and The Traitor.
If you like this genre, great read, 60's going forward.
Gordievsky, the KGB agent who turns to the West,  has lived in greater London all these years, incredible he hasn't been poisoned yet.
Almost as good as MacIntyre's A Spy Among Friends, Kim Philby's betrayal.

Tried Transcription by Kate Atkinson.  Got about half way through and dropped it.  That happens from time to time, could have been the mood I was in.  Will try again.

Also dipping into the life and writings of Thomas Merton and Teilhard de Chardin.

And last but not least, Sissinghurst by Adam Nicolson, grandson of infamous Vita and Harold. Mostly a good read if this is your cup of tea, father-son relationships, farming, land management, his grand parents.  Part memoir and a fair amount of English history.  I had visited Sissinghurst gardens (blown away by its beauty), and now Adam is working to revive the original farm. 

This thread is fun; reading about books that pique my interest, that are generally not what I read, i.e. Chinese science fiction!

I like it when the book thread gets going again too. Some interesting titles there Mags and Klaus - thanks! I listened to a couple of Kate Atkinson books and they were ok. The premise of Life after Life was interesting - the main character keeps dying but coming back to try and get through that part of her life, or achieve something.

Klaus wrote:

I just finished Cixin Liu's Three-Body Problem trilogy. I don't know if I've ever read better science fiction. Liu weaves a narrative that spans 400 years, from the cultural revolution in China to the age of space colonisation. The second book, The Dark Forest, will go down in history as one of the finest works of the genre. The twist that explains its title is the best, and most horrifying, solution for the Fermi paradox I've ever seen.

Does it not feel like apologetics for xenophobia?

Not really, no. I'd argue the exact opposite (but can't get into specifics without ruining the latter books). It's hard scifi that is as hard as it comes. The aliens aren't a lazy metaphor for foreigners.

I think I've mentioned before that I find sci-fi a difficult genre to enjoy (I liked it more when I was younger). I recently started reading Dune because someone recommended I try some of the classics, but I'm half way through and just not into it. Have heard good things about Liu's work though, so maybe I should give that a try.

Well, it's definitely different from Dune (though I suspect you may struggle with it taste wise).

Might enjoy some Le Guin Daz—The Left Hand of Darkness is a wonderful book.

Yeah I think you might have recommended her to me a while back. I downloaded 'the dispossessed' from memory but didn't get around to reading it for some reason. Might have to dust it off.

I'm a bit of a Le Guin fanatic. She's great, Daz, I also think you might like her.

Decided to read some classic literature in the past few months. I tended to read mainly non-fiction as a kid because I always liked learning new things and have grown tired of being culturally ignorant when it came to Dickens et al. as a result.

So I've read:

Treasure Island
Tess of the d'Urbevilles
Return of the Native
Far From the Madding Crowd
Wuthering Heights
Northanger Abbey
Pride and Prejudice
Jane Eyre
Rebecca
Emma
The Complete Sherlock Holmes
Martin Chuzzlewit
Great Expectations
Hard Times
The Mystery of Edwin Drood
A Handful of Dust
The Pickwick Papers
Life of Pi
The Pianist
1984
Dorian Gray (and various other of Oscar Wilde's writings)
Lots of Agatha Christie
And some from more questionable authors. A Jilly Cooper bonkfest called Polo for one!
Fever Pitch was fun too.

Nice work Ricky. If you're going to read that lot, don't leave out Middlemarch.

Nice list Ricky.

Try Bleak House - it's Dickens' best in my opinion.
Consider Les Miserbales and The Count of Monte Cristo as well - they're excellent.
And for something more modern give Haruko Murakami's "Kafka on the Shore" a read.

Reboot - Jerry Colonna.

If you’re a leader in any sense - team, project leader, CEO etc, or aspiring to be one, you should consider reading this.

A gift: Toni Morrison

I saw the news earlier today mags. Have you got any recommendations?

I know very little about Morrison in general, but I've read something called "Jazz" by her and I thought it was incredible. The novel is set in Harlem in the 1920s where it intertwines several stories about black urban life. It's structured as the literary equivalent of a jazz arrangement, with lyrical and narrative improvisation, and it has themes that are intimately connected to the early jazz age. It's difficult to explain in a summary, but the novel makes perfect sense on an emotional and linguistic level. It's a one of a kind experience. I found it through the music and bought it without even knowing who the author was. It never occurred to me that it was the same Toni Morrison who had gotten the nobel prize.

Klaus wrote:

I saw the news earlier today mags. Have you got any recommendations?

I know very little about Morrison in general, but I've read something called "Jazz" by her and I thought it was incredible. The novel is set in Harlem in the 1920s where it intertwines several stories about black urban life. It's structured as the literary equivalent of a jazz arrangement, with lyrical and narrative improvisation, and it has themes that are intimately connected to the early jazz age. It's difficult to explain in a summary, but the novel makes perfect sense on an emotional and linguistic level. It's a one of a kind experience. I found it through the music and bought it without even knowing who the author was. It never occurred to me that it was the same Toni Morrison who had gotten the nobel prize.

I struggled to read her books in the past. With her death, I will try again. Am starting with her Nobel acceptance speech written in 1993. So relevant today and a subject dear to my heart - “the bottomed out mind”... And then will look for “Jazz”! Thanks.
There is a ton of info, critiques, the obits, etc. out there which may help you choose. Keep me posted.

RIP.

My folks were very into her when I was a child and JAZZ and BELOVED were big news.

I picked up SONG OF SOLOMON and I enjoyed it when I was in my early teens. It's the only one of hers I've actually read.

The way she wrote Milkman Dead I think gave me a bit of an inkling of what life had in for me, because it's all about the demands that will made of you as a man, wanted or unwanted, and very insightful on that score. A lot of the best books are like that, protective charms.

Paul kalanidhi, Atul gawande, Siddharth Mukherjee - Indian American nerds be simply killing it in medical literature.

I always thought the 'md' stood for Maryland!  :hmm:  I think I've put it together now.

Also Abhijit Banerjee and his wife Esther Duflo won the Nobel Prize last month. Press Release here. More Economists but with a huge focus on public health. Their book 'Poor Economics' might interest you.

Cheers mate. But I was just texting friends for non medical book recs. Need a change of scenery after the last 2-3 books about the same.
Any recent book recs would be appreciated..

I've skimmed through it despite knowing what a hack Mme Duflo is. It's the worst kind of condescending garbage and gives economists a bad rep which is precisely why it's showered with praise media recognition and houseboat awards

Also not that it makes a big difference but they won the Nobel Memorial Prize in economic sciences, both worthless looking at who won them before but several leagues below the Peace Prize in terms of prestige

It is very mainstream but that's why I don't hesitate to recommend it to someone who may have casual interest. I think it caters to that audience and hence why its caught mainstream recognition.

Any works by development economists you would recommend jones?

(PS 'nobelpeace prize' rolled off the finger, fixed)

I've been reading a bit of fiction recently to give my brain a rest from reading stuff for my PhD.
Recently finished The Testaments and really enjoyed it. In some ways it felt like it had more depth than the first book and Aunt Lydia's arc is pretty engaging.
I also read The Wall after reading a review of it on the Booker shortlist. Concept was interesting if not particularly original and some of the writing was fairly interesting, but the story overall felt a bit unsatisfying.

KingslandBarge wrote:

It is very mainstream but that's why I don't hesitate to recommend it to someone who may have casual interest. I think it caters to that audience and hence why its caught mainstream recognition.

Any works by development economists you would recommend jones?

(PS 'nobelpeace prize' rolled off the finger, fixed)

I see where you're coming from but it's economics not a fantasy novel. There shouldn't be a reason to recommend something that's factually wrong and misleading even just because it's mainstream, it's not even like these works are that much easier to read than more heterodox works. And honestly that's not even close to the real reason Duflos works caught so much attention. I'm not sure this is where you wanted this discussion to go though before I go off on a tangent

I reject most recent more popular works by development economists because they're badly predisposed to assuming that poverty is something that could be fixed in the poor's behaviour, in fact its something I've read almost verbatim in one of Duflo's earlier books and literally the introduction to the last five or so WDRs by the World Bank.

Beyond the ideological content I also strongly disagree with their use of RCTs. It's an incredibly poor tool in economics in general and its actually legitimately harmful in the field of development economics for a number of reasons, which is exactly why it's so popular in certain circles. American philanthropists love themselves a couple of KPIs or any other tangible measure to get a feel for their ROI even when they are not even remotely applicable across the board. Thankfully the trend isn't nearly as strong in Europe (most Asian and African economists strongly reject it too), I know a couple of people who work in the sector in Germany and so far at least it's considered voodoo economics.

If you're interested the following is an editorial a friend of mine co-wrote.

https://www.zora.uzh.ch/id/eprint/125976/

It's short but references plenty highly insightful sources. I'm currently reading German only literature so just off the top of my head Jeffrey Hammer is one American author who's turned his back on RCTs and neo behaviouralist economics in general, Angus Deaton is another prominent critic. Another paper I planned on reading is by Isabelle Guerin which is said to be scathing of Duflo and her alleged plans to create a sort of whitelist of applicable development policies.

jones wrote:

I see where you're coming from but it's economics not a fantasy novel.

We may benefit from readings economics as fantasy. We would probably get closer to understanding most economists' ideas.

Too many depressing books on my book stand, sign of the times.

A Very Stable Genius about trump which I read in small doses; we know it all; well written.

Stasiland, non fiction , during the reign of  East German Eric Mielke, mid-late 20th century; couldn’t finish it, the Number of informants., mind boggling.

Brave New World, fiction, Huxley prescient in his ideas.  Finished 1/3 and said enough.  Ugly as ugly gets.

Auschwitz and After by Charlotte Delbo,  account of  her time as a prisoner there.   Original In that she combines poetry, vignettes,etc., to convey the horror.  Read it in small doses....

The only books I have read, depressing as the rest, yet able to read  through to the end, is Eugenia Ginzburg’s account of her time spent in the Gulag, 20 + years.  A devoted Communist,  she was part of the Great Purge in the 1930’s.  Fascinating read., Journey into the Whirlwind with a second memoir  Within the Whirlwind....
 
And saving the best for last,....Animalkind: Remarkable discoveries about animals and the remarkable ways  we can be kind to them.

I need to lighten up on what I read!    
Any suggestions?

mags wrote:

Too many depressing books on my book stand, sign of the times.

A Very Stable Genius about trump which I read in small doses; we know it all; well written.

Stasiland, non fiction , during the reign of  East German Eric Mielke, mid-late 20th century; couldn’t finish it, the Number of informants., mind boggling.

Brave New World, fiction, Huxley prescient in his ideas.  Finished 1/3 and said enough.  Ugly as ugly gets.

Auschwitz and After by Charlotte Delbo,  account of  her time as a prisoner there.   Original In that she combines poetry, vignettes,etc., to convey the horror.  Read it in small doses....

The only books I have read, depressing as the rest, yet able to read  through to the end, is Eugenia Ginzburg’s account of her time spent in the Gulag, 20 + years.  A devoted Communist,  she was part of the Great Purge in the 1930’s.  Fascinating read., Journey into the Whirlwind with a second memoir  Within the Whirlwind....
 
And saving the best for last,....Animalkind: Remarkable discoveries about animals and the remarkable ways  we can be kind to them.

I need to lighten up on what I read!    
Any suggestions?

incognito by david eagleman. its a digestible read and its a super fascinating subject

@[deleted]....
Just ordered the Eagleman book through my local library.
Thanks.

Highly recommend my mate Tim's book CALL HIM MINE. Journalistic noir with poetic prose about the tie-up in Mexico between law enforcement, drug cartels and American corporations, and quite a powerful romance as well. Based on his experiences filing as a Mexican correspondent for Al-Jazeera.