Yann M'Vila: Page 45 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Yann M'Vila

Shinda

asajoseph wrote:
He was the 4th most creative midfielder in the league. For all his faults, that doesn't suggest he was entirely awful.

but is faults has cost us in a lot of our games, if he could release the ball quicker and read a dangerous situation better he would be one of the league best footballer

JazzG

Assists can be misleading because if we go by that Song last season was more creative than Giggs, Nani, and Young. Not sure I'd agree with that! Creativity isn't just assists, it is creating the play and creating an opening and I don't think Song really excelled in that department. His dinks over the top were lovely though, saying that he did bloody attempt like them 5 times a game as well!

asajoseph wrote:
We've seen Song play a more outright-defensive role in the past, and on occasion last season too. You won't hear me say this often, but I think it's fairly obvious that if the manager wanted to sort this out, he could - Arsene's not sitting powerless on the touch line, he knows where Song's playing & he's clearly happy with it to some degree, because as annoying as the missed passes and the absence from the midfield have been at times this year, the role Song's played has been pretty much essential.

The problem with Song is he hasn't strung two games in a row being defensively spot on and imo that just isn't good enough. Far too often our team

Also my mate goes every home game to watch Arsenal and he told me he used to see Wenger and Rice in particular go mental at him at times for always going up and not getting back in position. I don't think discipline in midfield is something which is emphasised enough at the club. Pep spent most of last season drilling into Fabregas he can't just go running forward blindly without a care for what is behind him. Fair to say I think our midfielders are given a little too much freedom to go out and express themselves. I'd also happily let Song go if needed as well, I've always liked him as a player but I think this club won't be able to mould him into a disciplined midfield player. We need someone who can read the opposition attacking play, read when a defender is out of position and most importantly not just go running in like a headless chicken to win the ball, use intelligence to break up play. Look at Carrick for Man Utd, don't see him needing to barge about like Song does because he analyses the play a lot more clearly and his positional sense is spot on.

I do agree with your point of signing a Gotze/Hazard/Kagawa type player so in a way while I'm happy they are joining the addition of Podolski and Giroud is a bit confusing. Both quality players but not sure if they were what we needed. Maybe Wenger is thinking Wilshire, Arteta, Ramsay and Rosicky will provide the creativity needed if they are allowed a more free role to attack with a more defensive minded player behind them. I've got a feeling the manager might be tweaking our game as well, so maybe a slight change in style coming as well?

sabret00the

asajoseph wrote:
Lots to say in this thread, but first off, you don't move the most lethal striker, in the league away from goal. You rest him, you rotate him, and you give him a partner, but I bloody hope we aren't signing Giroud to play ahead of Robin.

Ignore the people smoking crack and posting while high. Giroud is coming to a squad player.

asajoseph

We all know Song wasn't consistent at either end of the pitch last season.

But that doesn't change the fact that what he did do well got us plenty of points. If getting that many assists were as simple as not defending and slinging a few balls into the box, it'd be amazing that clubs pay so much for players who do it well.

Ray

Whether song was good or not doesnt matter, we are one injury to him or arteta away from losing to the likes of norwich and sunderland. We need depth and another signing in midfield who can offer competition like we now have with three quality center backs and strikers. Mvila at first seems a bit inexperienced for my liking but his quality is there for everyone to see, he is going to become a beast and i would rather have his signature now then later on when a real auction will occur.

kamikaze

JazzG wrote:
Also my mate goes every home game to watch Arsenal and he told me he used to see Wenger and Rice in particular go mental at him at times for always going up and not getting back in position. I don't think discipline in midfield is something which is emphasised enough at the club. Pep spent most of last season drilling into Fabregas he can't just go running forward blindly without a care for what is behind him. Fair to say I think our midfielders are given a little too much freedom to go out and express themselves.

this is spot on. wenger is much too hands off in his approach.

Cill

We don't need M'Vila imo.

If we went back to playing with one holding DM instead of persisting with this stupid double pivot we adopted to get the best out of a player who has since left the club we'd be set in midfield.

Song proved in 08/09 and 09/10 that he's quality in that dedicated defensive midfield role. He looks weak defensively because Arsene allows him to go charging forward. If Wenger asked Song to go back to doing the job he used to, and just sit in front of the defence and shield it we'd immediately look much more solid without spunking 20M on M'Vila. Who will most likely end up not improving us hugely defensively as Arsene won't give a crap if he's trying to get forward.

Nela

I think we desperately need to have a couple of midfielders who takes responsability. Players who are willing to do what's best for the team, even if it's not what they love. Unfortunately, Song is not that player. His assists were vital last year. But that has more to do with the uselessness of Ramsey and Rosicky, our supposed creative players.

Arteta is not some brilliant defensive player, but he takes responsability and that's the key. We saw what happened to the team without him. I like Song, but I don't think he'll ever really be the type of player. Bringing in someone who will is key to moving forward in my opinion.

Gazza M

Cill wrote:
We don't need M'Vila imo.

If we went back to playing with one holding DM instead of persisting with this stupid double pivot we adopted to get the best out of a player who has since left the club we'd be set in midfield.

Song proved in 08/09 and 09/10 that he's quality in that dedicated defensive midfield role. He looks weak defensively because Arsene allows him to go charging forward. If Wenger asked Song to go back to doing the job he used to, and just sit in front of the defence and shield it we'd immediately look much more solid without spunking 20M on M'Vila. Who will most likely end up not improving us hugely defensively as Arsene won't give a crap if he's trying to get forward.

I'd be very surprised if Wenger took Song's license away at this point.

Until other players start pulling their weight creatively, or we sign new midfielders, billongs gonna billong.

y va marquer

Taking responsibility is not limited to defending or defensive duties. Given the options in midfield last season Song had to shoulder the majority of the responsibility for attack.

I don't actually think the role he played was one that he loved.
It's not his natural game, I read interviews with both Song and Wenger in which it was clear that it was Wenger who had encouraged him to play as he did as opposed to it being some desperate need on Song's behalf to turn himself into an attacking maverick midfielder.

Adding M'vila to our midfield would in theory make it more solid, he'd intercept and snuff out danger and possibly make us less prone to being over run on the counter.
I'd guess that it would also mean that Arteta would be used in a different way?

Captain

It shouldn't be assumed that midfield (and indeed forward) roles will be the same next season.

spacemanspiff

Biggest problem with Song in my opinion is that his short passing game and his technique are average at best and he doesn't have the mobility to get back in position when we lose the ball, which makes him unsuitable for playing so high up the pitch. The higher up the pitch you go, the less time you have on the ball and the amount of times Song gets caught square after being pressed and conceding a counter attack was way too much.

Fair play for the balls over the top to Robin, but I'd train him to play those balls 10 yards further down the pitch. Arteta had to cover him all season, but it should really be the other way around.

As for m'Vila - not the finished article but is a better footballer than Song and is more willing to get back in position and defend. I think he'll do well at Arsenal. He's also going to be too expensive for us soon enough.

Ray

This transfer slightly reminds me of nasri's. A 21 year old french player who has just had a bad season but is highly rated and compared to french greats completes his protracted transfer to arsenal after the euro competition in 2008, i hope he doesnt become a cunt like nasri did, Flamini left marseile similar to how he left arsenal as did nasri and after the way rennes fans booed him he might well behave like nasri.

sabret00the

Let's say our midfield is something along the lines of

----------- Ramsey/Rosicky/Jack
------- Jack/Song/Ramsey
--------------------M'Vila/Arteta/Song/Coquelin

We know that Arteta hasn't got the legs to cover the entire pitch, so he's likely to wanna sit back. Song is always trying to tackle from behind and so all that leaves us is Yann. Perhaps with less defensive responsibility Song can go on and blossom like the inner forward unleashing playmaker he thinks he is.

asajoseph

What about the Song / Jack / Arteta midfield we've all been talking about?

sabret00the

The above allows for such a formation. Jack at the front, Song doing B2B and Arteta holding. That said, you basically get the same out of Mikel as you would with Jack. It's just with Jack there's more mobility.

Shinda

sabret00the wrote:
The above allows for such a formation. Jack at the front, Song doing B2B and Arteta holding. That said, you basically get the same out of Mikel as you would with Jack. It's just with Jack there's more mobility.

I don't think Song will make a good B2B player, one of the many requirements for a B2B player you got to sense danger, know when to surge forward and know when to sit back and also got you have to have a lung of a Kenya runner to me that his not Alex Song.

Patters

I'm pretty sure we won't sign M'Vila. I really hope we do but Wenger doesn't think like that.

I'll be a little worried if we did sign M'Vila actually - I think it might mean Wenger has very serious worries about Wilshere. It doesn't matter that M'Vila is not a direct replacement for Wilshere. Wenger only thinks in terms of a fully fit squad and he wouldn't sign a midfielder if he's confident of getting a good no. of games from Wilshere, Song and Arteta.

Wilshere's career is not over. But there is a chance his career as a world class star - not just a 'pretty good but not great' midfielder - is over. In that case, spend all the cash on M'Vila. A powerful, experienced midfield of Arteta, Song and M'Vila would make us a bit harder to beat. And on the wings, hope that Podolski/Walcott/Oxlade can get us the goals.

sabret00the

Shinda wrote:
sabret00the wrote:
The above allows for such a formation. Jack at the front, Song doing B2B and Arteta holding. That said, you basically get the same out of Mikel as you would with Jack. It's just with Jack there's more mobility.

I don't think Song will make a good B2B player, one of the many requirements for a B2B player you got to sense danger, know when to surge forward and know when to sit back and also got you have to have a lung of a Kenya runner to me that his not Alex Song.

What we think and what Wenger allows Song to think are two totally different things. Song is allowed to think he's a B2B and that's what we're stuck with.

Mirth

Patters wrote:
I'll be a little worried if we did sign M'Vila actually - I think it might mean Wenger has very serious worries about Wilshere. It doesn't matter that M'Vila is not a direct replacement for Wilshere. Wenger only thinks in terms of a fully fit squad and he wouldn't sign a midfielder if he's confident of getting a good no. of games from Wilshere, Song and Arteta.

Wilshere's career is not over. But there is a chance his career as a world class star - not just a 'pretty good but not great' midfielder - is over. In that case, spend all the cash on M'Vila. A powerful, experienced midfield of Arteta, Song and M'Vila would make us a bit harder to beat. And on the wings, hope that Podolski/Walcott/Oxlade can get us the goals.

Or maybe Wenger's finally given up on Diaby?

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