Is the main goal next season winning the CL?

Meatwad

that can't be the main goal. i would prefer that over the league, but how would you prioritize it compared to last season? we went undefeated and lost on penalties. over a league season it doesn't come down to fine margins like that after going undefeated, so you can't put all your eggs in a cup basket.

Mirth

The goal should be to have at least a good few years of dominance.

I’m not fussed about order but I’m hopefully we manage to tick off a few things never done/not done for a while over time

A CL title
Back to back league titles
A league and FA cup double

Klaus

The main goal is always the league. Cups are too unpredictable. You don't know who you're going to play and every penalty shootout is a coin toss. Even with great penalty takers you only gain a few percent of probability in your favor.

The whole point of a league season is that it's not a coin toss: it's something you prepare and build for and it's possible to evaluate it halfway and course correct. That also makes it realistic to think of it in terms of goals and target values.

Sicario2

Klaus my point is that with the current players (plus Bruno plus CB) we are good enough to win the league but don’t have enough quality to win the CL.

Therefore, we need to make a conscious effort with our summer signings with winning the CL in mind hence we need a marquee signing.

Look, if we aim to win the CL as a primary goal we will end up winning the league anyway as will have the best team in Europe (or close to).

Yes, the league is a true measure of long term performance but ultimately it’s about quality. If we had a top quality striker instead of Havertz we would have won the CL (appreciate Kai got the first goal but it almost cancelled out with an easier chance for the second).

Klaus

Sicario2 my point is that with the current players (plus Bruno plus CB) we are good enough to win the league but don’t have enough quality to win the CL.

And my point is that I don't think that's true; I think it's a coin toss. Which it literally was last season - penalty goes in and we would have won. Penalty was saved and we lost. Maybe we would have won if we had played Bayern instead. Maybe we would have gone out on penalties earlier if we had played PSG instead of Atletico? Who knows. Too many variables and unknowns.

Mirth

Klaus And my point is that I don't think that's true; I think it's a coin toss

And the solution there is to line up multiple coin tosses.

If we consistently get to finals/semi finals in the CL over the next few years (like we have done over the past couple) I think we’ll finally win it. Maybe one year we end up with Dortmund or Inter in the final instead.

Or I’ll go mad and break something if we don’t.

Klaus

Mirth And the solution there is to line up multiple coin tosses.

Absolutely, but I think the best way to do that is to make sure you're good enough to win Premier League. I feel that's an excellent way of ensuring your quality is high enough to be a big European player. We should try it more often.

If we can maintain this level for the next 2-3 years we'll have a pretty good opportunity I reckon, but you can't budget for Champions League unless you're Real Madrid, and even then it only seems to work when they're being coached by Zidane or Ancelotti.

Qwiss

Mirth exactly. It took City years of PL dominance before they cracked the CL. A lot of it is down to luck when the best sides face each other.

Sicario2

This coin toss theory and leaving things to chance is bs.

You want something, you go and get it. Minimise your risk as much as possible and also includes deciding on penalty takers, order of players taking the pens and planned subs to bring on better pen takers.

Anyway fuck the pens, PSG were there for the taking in ET when their best players were off the pitch.

Last summer we decided we had enough about coming second and we decided we would win the league despite injuries, despite PGMOL and we got it done by hook or by crook.

We got to have the same killer mentality for CL, it’s personal.

We got to win the CL next year, nothing less is acceptable. A club like ours cannot have ZERO CL’s, it simply can’t.

Luck exists but elite clubs don’t hide behind it.

Burnwinter

Sicario2 We got to have the same killer mentality for CL, it’s personal.

I expect the players and manager to have a killer mentality and I expect our transfer activity to put that mentality on practical and solid ground. Which it should be: we should still be among the very best football clubs on the planet next season.

However, we can't expect to determine Arsenal's first European Championship in advance. Arsenal's just played a Champions League final where we saw what the margins and the chances can be. Madueke could be awarded that penalty and he wasn't. If he is, we would quite likely be champions.

As a fan I hope we get to the semifinals and then the final. I would rather hope we get another big chance to be champions of Europe, than set up a trap where I'm obliged to despise Arsenal or its players for getting that far and falling just short.

JazzG

I don't think you can plan for winning the CL, a lot of what happens there is down to luck on the day and you can't plan for that. We need to plan to retain the PL, that alone will give us a good platform to challenge for the CL.

Sicario2

JazzG it’s the mindset mate. That has to be binary.

You guys are talking about probability. I’m talking about culture.

I appreciate it’s a complete different sport but do you think Michael Jordan went into seasons thinking ‘hopefully we will win?’

Meatwad

Sicario2
WTF, michael jordan? there is no chance involved in winning an NBA title. the best team wins in a 7 game series.

JazzG

Sicario2 I'm not saying we go into any season saying hopefully, I am explaining the reality is you can plan to win league titles but CL is not that straight forward. We have got into the semis and finals in our last two seasons so clearly whatever we are doing is working. Look at Pep and his record under City, one CL win despite complete dominance in the PL. You don't think he has the mentality for it?

I don't really follow Basketball but don't they have multi game playoffs? It is very different playing a best of 7 than a one off game.

RowJimmy

Sicario2 I’m talking about culture.

You're chatting shit.
People who build team culture don't talk like you at all. Not even close.

RowJimmy

Meatwad
The one of the four best teams with the best injury situation wins the NBA title.

Sicario2

JazzG there just too many excuses already made about why we may not win. What about if we do win? What I’m saying is that we should be obsessed with winning the CL.

The night we lost CL final I couldn’t sleep, this is not something I simply accept.

The mindset is we have to win it, luck and coin toss and blah blah is all immaterial.

Let me ask you something, are you not embarrassed by our European record? You do know we are the biggest club that has never won the CL. Let that sink in.

Mirth

Ok got it, so all we have to do to win the CL is channel the spirit of Michael Jordan.

Big Willie Champ

Mirth Ok got it, so all we have to do to win the CL is channel the spirit of Michael Jordan.

Nothing less than the CL is acceptable next season mate.

Sicario2

Mirth why you mocking? MJ is one of the greatest athletes of all time. If we had his or say Djokovic’s mindset we would have a lot more than 1 title in 6 years.

You guys don’t have a fucking clue

Sicario2

RowJimmy who the fuck are you? You sound like an utter loser. What the fuck have you done in your life that gives you any qualification in winning?

Show us your fucking medals son

Coombs

Pretty sure you can't build team culture on an internet forum full of random scrubs, anyway.

Mirth

Sicario2 got it, all we need is to channel the mentality of the greatest sports icons that have ever lived.

I hope Arteta’s thought of that!

Coombs

Sicario2 The night we lost CL final I couldn’t sleep, this is not something I simply accept.

Acceptance is hard, but I believe in you. Just need to keep working at it.