Arsenal Vs. Man City (League Cup Final) 430pm BST 22 March: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal Vs. Man City (League Cup Final) 430pm BST 22 March

Sicario2

This guy should NOT start

Don Pacifico

I'd be really surprised if he doesn't play. How do you keep a reserve GK on side (particularly one who still has a decent reputation, regardless of what we may think) if you don't give him finals in the competitions where he's been starting?

Burnwinter

Don Pacifico Was just thinking the same thing. I reckon it's also modestly corrosive to trust in the wider squad.

Sicario2

Don Pacifico this is the cup final and Arteta is a pragmatic man. No time for sentiment. Kepa has and will play a lot of cup games, hell, he will play v Southampton when we come back from the break.

Klaus

Don Pacifico Is this really a concern in the grand scheme of things though? We could get another reserve keeper next season; there are hundreds of players who'd sell their own mother to come here. Pick pretty much any starter who's not already playing for a top 4 club in Premier League and they would jump at the chance.

I say keeping Raya happy is a much bigger concern than keeping Kepa happy. If I were the first choice keeper I wouldn't want to be benched in a cup final. If I were one of the outfield players I'd be equally mad if the manager benched possibly the best goalkeeper in the world in a final. Talk about tying one hand behind your back.

Gunner89

Don Pacifico

Oh no kepa might leave? terrible that...

Burnwinter

It's kinda annoying that Kepa will be the story whether he plays or not.

My guess is he'll start. These sorts of commitments are meaningful for players and tend to be respected. It's the League Cup and it may not be big enough to argue it's too big to fail.

Sicario2

Burnwinter it’s our first final in 6 years. Winning this is insurance for the rest of the trophies this season. Winning this means we can reduce any noise around city and the title race and be able to play a B team v Southampton as the impetus of winning FA cup won’t be as high (unless we really want to go for a quad).

RocktheCasbah

I'm with Amy Lawrence - Raya should and, I think, will start.

Qwiss

I think Raya will start. I think Arteta will have promised him the cups but not the finals. I could be wrong though.

Burnwinter

Qwiss I think Arteta will have promised him the cups but not the finals.

Yeah it's possible, but it's the League Cup so he might have said to Kepa if we get there, he gets there.

Kepa running out would be as likely as not to change the result with the form Raya has been in. I just have the vibe it'll happen from somewhere today.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 keeping players on side isn't sentiment, it's actually pragmatic.

RowJimmy

If Arteta made promises to Kepa, he will keep them. Credibility in the locker room is important.

tazmania

Arteta is a guy who tossed his decent number 1 aside at first notice without any remorse. For once I want him to be pragmatic and start Raya. Now's not the time to be sentimental

Mirth

Arteta would sell his own grandmother for a trophy. Raya will start.

The outcome of this game has an impact on the remaining 3 competitions.

Mirth

Also Kepa hasn’t been that great - if he carried us to the final then fair enough. He’s been ok - good second choice but nothing more

Sicario2

Klaus you think Raya is best in the world? Thats some shout but perhaps not far off. Other contenders are Courtois and Donnarumma

Don Pacifico

Klaus yeah I get that perspective but I don't buy it. I think you're overestimating the pull for a 2nd choice GK, particularly if they see their predecessors aren't considered for the big matches they want to be playing in. The GK who faced us at the weekend (ie. Pickford) isn't going anywhere to be 2nd choice as evidenced by how comfortable he is at Everton. Even Fulham's GK (Leno) rejected the chance to be our 2nd choice.

I agree picking Raya is best for our chance of winning silverware but I also think you're overestimating our players' desire to win the Carabao cup vs their respect for their teammates (and squad unity is something Mikel has been a big advocate for, particularly to keep fringe players on side). If we win the league or the CL, Raya's not going to be too bummed he missed out on the Carabao cup final and ultimately that's the level we're aiming for.

Burnwinter

Klaus Is this really a concern in the grand scheme of things though?

I mean, is the reserve keeper who's been getting the guernsey up till now also playing in the final a concern?

I'd say if Arteta promised Kepa he would play, he should play; if he promised Raya, Raya should play; and if Arteta made no promises to either then he can do what he wants, but it's a litmus test of the romance of fraternity versus the romance of victory.

I'd like to feel people at the club keep to the spirit of their promises most of the time. If you say you're all about living your values, live them.

Klaus

Sicario2 Donnarumma is a joke. Courtois is a contender but I think Raya is the best, and probably our player of the season so far. I see him pull off absolutely insane shit week after week.

Seaman made the best save I had ever seen in that FA cup game in his final season: Raya has made two or three saves like that this season alone. Absolute levels to this man.

Sicario2

Don Pacifico in normal circumstances I agree but this is not normal circumstances, we haven’t won a trophy in 6 years.

Do we have more chance with Raya or Kepa in goal? Whatever the answer is we should play them. The only important metric is winning this final to give us the stepping stone for rest of the season. This is more important than hurting a second choice keepers feelings. This is elite sport, they know what’s up. It’s not as if Kepa done anything out of this world with his performances thus far to even earn a spot in the final.

P.S: Hasn’t been mentioned on here but City without Guehi is HUGE for us

Qwiss

Don Pacifico Kepa has a big CV but is he actually that good of a goal keeper? Hasn't really impressed in the minutes he's had this season. I wouldn't be overly worried about him moving.

Coombs if that was the deal Arteta will keep it. It'd be terrible management no to. Why would anyone else trust your word after that? I'm just not sure it will have been the deal. I guess we'll see.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 I'm not debating which option is better placed to win the match, I'm just saying I don't think that's the decision Arteta will go with

As an aside, you often talk about players as if they're chess pieces and not human beings. I think Arteta is smart enough to know that's an incredibly short-sighted way to view things. And frankly, in any line of work you should be considering the real-world impact of your choices/actions on those you manage. They don't always have to agree with your decision but they have to respect it.

Tam

Don Pacifico As an aside, you often talk about players as if they're chess pieces and not human beings. I think Arteta is smart enough to know that's an incredibly short-sighted way to view things. And frankly, in any line of work you should be considering the real-world impact of your choices/actions on those you manage. They don't always have to agree with your decision but they have to respect it.

There are examples to the contrary over the years where players have looked deserving of a spot and someone with poorer form has continued to play in front of them. Arteta had little concern in making those decisions.

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