Viktor Gyokeres: Page 83 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Viktor Gyokeres

samthegooner

MistaT Great write up and I agree with pretty much all of it.

One thing that I think Havertz brings that neither Merino or Gyokeres have shown much of is his intelligent movement off the ball. Gyokeres certainly runs his butt off and keeps CB's occupied but we don't see some of the stretching runs that Havertz makes attacking space - he's such a smart player with his movement and while he is still not a great finisher, he can also create a ton of space for others to fill, like Rice. The Bournemouth game showed me a new wrinkle in our attack where we clearly had instructed Rice to make late arriving runs into the box for one touch finishes. I don't think that was an accident and I'd love to see him do more of this. Havertz would help enable this even more by creating the space to run into or from knock downs to an onrushing Rice (he scored one like this either last year or the year prior).

Burnwinter

samthegooner One thing that I think Havertz brings that neither Merino or Gyokeres have shown much of is his intelligent movement off the ball.

Havertz moves off the ball to create space for himself unusually well for his size and profile, but I'm not convinced he occupies defenders all that well otherwise. At this point though I'm looking forward to being reminded what Havertz can do.

Coombs

@Qwiss is right and I'm not sure how it can be argued. Merino being a better option up front than Gyökeres is...well, it's just wrong. There isn't any room in our midfield for a false 9 and it resulted in the most miserable horseshoe football of the Arteta era.

The only good thing Jesus does positionally is peeling out left to make more space for Martinelli to cut inside. I want to see Gyökeres do that more. Picking up the ball off our CBs is not it.

Don Pacifico

Coombs There isn't any room in our midfield for a false 9 and it resulted in the most miserable horseshoe football of the Arteta era.

Except Merino was part of and actively contributed to our best attacking performances this season (Bayern, Spurs, Sunderland 2nd half)...no?

Qwiss

Don Pacifico when Gyokeres starts we have a 15-1-1 record in the league. The draw being with City and the loss being at Anfield. All the other dropped points are from the 5 games he didn't start, a run where we dropped points in more games than we won.

Burnwinter true he doesn't occupy defenders the way Gyokeres does because he drops into the pockets behind that space or drifts out to right where Ode and Saka are. When he gets fit he'll definitely be more involved than Gyokeres in most games but it'll be in deeper positions. That's the trade off between the 2. I'm not sure yet if our getting the left winger into the game more is Gyokeres related or not but its definitely happening more and I do think our tendency to have Saka, Ode and Havertz all buzzing around the right side of the box or just outside it did leave the LW isolated.

Coombs

Don Pacifico He manfully covered the gap at center forward, yes. He's a good finisher and positions himself well in the box. No shade on Merino, but I think running power and holding position ahead of our wingerbacks and 8/10s is more important. Gives Odegaard room to breathe and open ups the channel for Rice to use his superpowers.

Qwiss

RowJimmy we have better results with Gyokeres leading the line.

daredevil That's just not true, though.

No it is. We are top of the PL and CL. Best team in Europe.

We aren't doing anything this season that we haven't done in each of the last three seasons i.e.

We are though. We haven't been beating sides like Bayern and Atleti with ease and sitting top of the CL table.

You're "no one else is good and that's why we're leading" stuff is vibes based. We weren't in this position last season, we are better because we are better. Gyokeres has played most games and our record with him is top drawer.

Don Pacifico

Qwiss we're better because we signed Zubimendi and now have more depth in other areas. Gyokeres has contributed with Havertz and Jesus out but I don't think that means he's a success based on current evidence.

daredevil

Qwiss

Have you forgotten 22/33 and 23/24?

Last season, we reached the semis of the CL which included beating the treble winners at home in the Group Stage where we finished third. This season is a continuation of that.

I'm not trying to downplay our achievements this season and Gyokeres has been pivotal in our OOP press but to claim any more positives than that for having a proper 9 would be pure cope.

P.S. I'm still backing/wishful thinking that he has a stellar second season but our setup doesnt suit him.

Qwiss

Don Pacifico Zubimendi is great but he didn't miss any of that Gyokeresless 5 games run where only won 2.

QuincyAbeyie

"We're good, so all the players must be good" is pretty vibes based as well. It's entirely possible to be good despite holes in the lineup.

Qwiss

QuincyAbeyie I'm going to go out on a limb here and say if our ST was as shit as Don and DD claim then we wouldn't be top of either the PL or CL.

Don Pacifico

Qwiss what Quincy said. I'm a bit baffled by this line of argument. It excuses away the fact that Gyokeres is underperforming on all metrics you'd expect to see from a striker. To suggest that he's doing some mysterious unseen work that is bringing the team success is about as mystifying as the notion that he's just been brought in to occupy defenders (we didn't need to spend £65m to find someone who could do that) and that he has some exceptional gift in this regard (despite the fact he rarely retains possession).

Don Pacifico

Qwiss your mileage may vary but it's pretty plausible to do well with someone who is at best ordinary (France won their first world cup with Stephane Guivarc'h as their #9).

Football is a team sport and our team has been pretty close to winning major silverware the last few seasons. Gyokeres has added squad depth but isn't the missing ingredient.

CPM

Qwiss We're top because we're elite in the following areas: defense, early-phase build-up, pressing/ball recovery, set pieces, and squad depth.

Qwiss

Don Pacifico To suggest that he's doing some mysterious unseen work

A lot of us see it.

DiabyKungFu

We were already the best team in Europe in 23/24.

Qwiss

daredevil Have you forgotten 22/33 and 23/24?

No I haven't, have you?

DiabyKungFu

Qwiss A lot of us see it.

A lot of people see ghosts and UFOs.

Don Pacifico

Qwiss care to share with the group?

Qwiss

DiabyKungFu and some people think the earths flat because they can't see the curves.

Big Willie

DiabyKungFu A lot of people see ghosts and UFOs.

A lot of people see all the science, literature, and actual photos of the earth being round yet still think it is flat.

DiabyKungFu

Qwiss Arteta must see them too then.

He's subbing him off early and in every interview about Gyokeres, he talks about wanting him to score more goals. Gyokeres has been exceptional when it comes to pressing out of possession. This is what is keeping him on the field. Basically every single aspect of the sport that has anything to do with the ball, he has been awful. If he was just average at pressing, then I reckon Arteta would be pulling people down from out of the stands to play ahead of him.

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