Arteta - one more year and that’s it: Page 44 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arteta - one more year and that’s it

RocktheCasbah

Qwiss Would you really avoid a 6-0 for years but win nothing vs Wengers 2000 to 2005?

Of course not. I remember us losing 6-1 at United, but it's forgiven (and largely forgotten) because I think the very next time we went up there, we won 1-0 and, in the process, sealed the double. Just in case I need to clarify this, this game was one of my proudest 90 minutes as an Arsenal fan.

The issue for me then became the regularity of the big game beatings post 2011, with very little to show for them.

Was it our last home game before Arteta came back, we lost 3-0 at home to City in front of a half empty Emirates? I know that was under Emery, but I don't think we should forget how bad things had become before Arteta's return.

Burnwinter

Qwiss That they've finally done their job and backed Arteta properly is a relief but not worthy of any real praise.

I've got no great love for KSE, but as full owners of the club they could be a lot worse. A quick glance around the upper end of the league—Newcastle, Forest, United—tells you that. They've got deep pockets and they're not complete lunatics, debt speculators or sportswashing monarchs, they're sports businesspeople. Foul, but fair.

We can infer the timing of KSE's return to spending had a fair bit to do wtih two things. First, finally squeezing out Usmanov as a minor shareholder, or rather David bloody Dein. Second, Arsenal's decline out of Champions League contention.

Since then praise for the cadence of KSE's investment has to go in significant part to Arteta, who seems to have a knack for upward management so far. Even during the last window I was quietly surprised KSE stumped up for Eze after the rest of the outlay.

Klaus

Qwiss They've invested a bit now because they feel they need to to protect their investment but I still have no good will toward them. They're the ones who screwed Wengers last 10 years.

Definitely, I don't like them either. Fucking pricks would have us playing in the European Super League with every odd matchday outsourced to some two-bit ground in Miami and LA if they could.

jones

RocktheCasbah You podcaster lot"? 🤣

If you'd actually listened to any of the podcasts I did around the time

I've never listened to any podcast in my life. Just something I noticed without trying to compare you to gunnerblog, it's weird how the buy in with everything Arteta does is massive compared to the actual yield.

Fair play if you expressed your grief about how Arteta cleared out the Francophone bunch, his zealots online usually call them all sorts of names which I've a bigger problem with than Artetas disgraceful treatment of them in the first place.

daredevil

Qwiss

Wenger was backed in his last five years after Ozil came in. The problem was three fold - we narrowly missed out on some super players who would have changed our fortunes. Wenger started to lose control within the club and apparently others were starting to dictate transfer policy. Lastly, the thing that made Wenger the GOAT was having unrivalled access to top players in France, once that edge was lost, we were no longer finding top French talent, largely due to fucking Grimandi.

I don't think he was tactically strong enough to flourish using modern day tactics, but nonetheless I would have loved to have seen it. Also, the amount of money we spent between Ozil and Aubameyang was a lot. Adjusted for inflation, it's close to similar.

Don Pacifico

daredevil Lastly, the thing that made Wenger the GOAT was having unrivalled access to top players in France, once that edge was lost, we were no longer finding top French talent, largely due to fucking Grimandi.

France was a big part of Wenger's recruitment strength but he also had a network in other under-exploited markets (eg. Ivory Coast). Once his contacts became out of date and scouting elsewhere improved (plus his training/dietary regime was no longer novel), he certainly didn't have much in the way of a competitive advantage over other top managers.

But on Grimandi, he found plenty of decent talents - Kos, Sagna and Diaby to name a few.

Mirth

daredevil and Wenger himself got in his own way. If, in 2015, he went out and bought a proper GK, CB and ST we would have won the league and been set for the rest of the decade. That squad had some very good players - Ozil, Sanchez, Ramsey, Cazorla, Koscielny, Monreal etc. It just needed some more star quality to see it through.

The following summer Wenger ended up spending £100m anyway but it was on Xhaka, Mustafi and Lucas Perez. That was the beginning of the end.

Qwiss

daredevil Also, the amount of money we spent between Ozil and Aubameyang was a lot. Adjusted for inflation, it's close to similar.

I find that hard to believe. You want to back up that claim with a few figures?

Mirth do we think Wenger wanted Perez? He never played him.

daredevil

Qwiss

I did the analysis last summer on A-M - and sense checked it with OpenAI just now

Wenger (2013–2018): Gross spend: £352.8m
Adjusted for CIES transfer inflation (8–13% compounded to 2022): ≈ £750–800m
https://football-observatory.com/Inflation-in-the-football-players-transfer-market

Arteta (2020–2024): Gross spend: ≈ £700m
Inflation 2020–2022/23 was still positive, but lower than in the 2010s (CIES estimate _3–6% per year).
Adjusted to 2022 values: ≈ £740–760m

When both are inflation-adjusted, Wenger and Arteta’s total outlays are almost identical in real terms — Wenger’s slightly higher if you use the upper CIES estimate, Arteta’s slightly higher on the lower end.

So the key takeaway is: In “today’s market money,” Wenger spent roughly the same as Arteta has.

The difference is perception: Wenger’s spend looked cautious at the time because nominal fees were lower, while Arteta’s looks extravagant in the current inflated market.

@flobaba Trust me brevs

flobaba

It's close to similar bruv

Qwiss

daredevil I thought you were talking about real inflation, not some made up nonsense. And even then you need to ignore player sales.

Big Willie

daredevil Wenger’s spend looked cautious at the time because nominal fees were lower, while Arteta’s looks extravagant in the current inflated market.

Wenger's looked cautious because he was spending a lot less compared to his rivals. Arteta's looks extravagant because he qe regularly end up with one of the highest net spend each season. Yeah, inflation may have gone up but it's all relative to what others are doing.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1/ids/a/sa//saison_id/2020/saison_id_bis/2026/nat/0/pos//w_s//intern/0

Since summer 2020 we have the 2nd highest net spend €120m behind Chelsea. In gross amounts we are the 4th highest gross spenders since 2020 but still within €50m of both City and United.

Under Arsene 2013-2018 we were 3rd in net spend with €245m, less than half of United with €570m and less than a 3rd of City with €724m.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2013&saison_id_bis=2017&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0#google_vignette

In terms of gross spendind, we were 5th with €460m spent. That's behind Liverpool (€589), just over half of United (€811) and Chelsea (€757), and less than half of City (€960).

Things are not the same in terms of spending for Arsene and Mikel, even after being adjusted for inflation, because it fails to consider the spending relative to rivals.

daredevil

Qwiss

Why would CPI or any other non-football related metric be relevant? The statistical model based on 5,244 paid transactions concluded between 2013/14 and 2022/23 is a hell of lot more accurate than anything else out there.

I did ignore player sales.

Qwiss

You also did 4 years vs 5 years.

Burnwinter

Big Willie Since summer 2020 we have the 2nd highest net spend €120m behind Chelsea. In gross amounts we are the 4th highest gross spenders since 2020 but still within €50m of both City and United.

These figures need to be adjusted for nett change in estimated squad value (or some more sophisticated thing). Our squad was valued at about €700m in summer 2020 and is now worth €600m more.

Sicario2

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Sicario2 good interview, and I always liked Ally McCoist.

Qwiss

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert can't stand him on co-commentary.

CPM

Mikel said "Athletic Bilbao" in that, forty lashes for him.

MistaT

Interesting interview.

Seems they must know each other a touch? good camaraderie.

The music seems pulled right out of Succession.

"We're very lucky that players want to come to Arsenal now".

"I see margins for improvement everywhere"

JazzG

MistaT Seems they must know each other a touch? good camaraderie.

Both are legends for Rangers 😉

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