Summer 2025 Transfer Window: Page 65 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Summer 2025 Transfer Window

Qwiss

lorddulaarsenal I don't think anyone would be upset at that starting XI next season.

Qwiss

Claudius well deserved TBH. You don't mind paying top money to top players. We should offer Gabriel an extension on the same money too.

Claudius

Qwiss keep this core. love these players. they need to get their titles here.

Gurgen

Saka deserves 300k

Tam

Claudius Lol.

Gazza M

Claudius he's pound for pound one of the worst wastes of money in the history of the club

compare and contrast havertz at 280k/pw vs saka at 300-350k/pw

USArsenal

Gazza M

Oh gimme a break, we've had much worse signings. A little excessive with his wage, but not completely over the top. He brings a lot to the team. I can name 10 players just off the top of my head that were bigger wastes of money

For reference... Kai has played 2 less games and scored 3 more goals. Granted Saka has more assists, but he should. Kai is our top scorer and has missed 15 games.

Gazza M

USArsenal you could name 10 worse players but you'd be hard pressed to name 10 worse uses funds than 65m + 280k/pw on havertz, especially if you factor in the opportunity cost that impacted other signings

USArsenal

Gazza M

I could name 10 worse and more pointless SIGNINGS, not players. One that springs to mind is Pepe. Cost much more than Havertz and was shuttled out of the club having scored less goals and never getting a run in the side. Havertz may not be the premier striker that so many clamor for, but he is extremely useful and fits in well with the team that's being built and always works his ass off.

Coombs

Gazza M how on earth could you possibly factor that in? Are you a wizard?

Havertz is as about as good as you can get for that money. How about we start factoring in agents fees, kickbacks to secondary businesses, family bribes, third party ownership, sovereign wealth fund shenanigans, etc. that go down in other clubs' transfer dealings?

Signing Havertz was nowhere near the worst use of funds in world football. He wasn't a bargain, I'll give you that. Mediocre clubs competing for nothing (and Liverpool, but frankly I think their numbers are total bullshit) get bargains. I don't want a bargain. I want a stacked squad that costs the GDP of a small country. Either that, or let's just get relegated and play real football in the National League. There is no middle ground, because the middle ground is Tottenham.

invisibleman18

Gazza M you could name 10 worse players but you'd be hard pressed to name 10 worse uses funds than 65m + 280k/pw on havertz, especially if you factor in the opportunity cost that impacted other signings

Added to the fact we needed a CM and a striker when we signed him, really got neither, and now still need both.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Yeah, I like Kai but he was a misallocation of funds. No more halfway house type signings, please (e.g. no Cunha).

lorddulaarsenal

Read things on line saying Mik might experiment with having big Kai play just in behind the striker

Havertz and Gyokeres/Isak/Sesko/Delap would be a right old handful

Zubi Rice midfield could enable that

Qwiss

lorddulaarsenal Read things on line saying Mik might experiment with having big Kai play just in behind the striker

He's probably best there and so is Ethan. Would suit them both to rotate that position. I'm just not sure it suits the rest of our midfield. Doubt Arteta is dropping Odegaard and shouldn't to accommodate Havertz.

lorddulaarsenal

Can sense Burnsy twitching with excitement

Burnwinter

lorddulaarsenal Sounds like a disaster tactically but that would soon be converted to a properly configured willy-shake if we were actually to land Isak or Gyökeres in addition to Zubimendi ...

Qwiss

USArsenal Cost much more than Havertz and was shuttled out of the club having scored less goals and never getting a run in the side.

Agree that its was stupid to sign Pepe when the managers never wanted him. That said he cost almost the same as Kai. €75m vs €80m.

JazzG

Claudius Top 2/3 player in that position, should be on money that reflects that.

samthegooner

The Kai disrespect in this thread is dumbfounding. He does not fit into a neat box in terms of a player (i.e. not really a midfielder but not really an out and out forward) and that clearly really impacts how he is viewed as a player. However, he adds so much to this team in terms of his work rate off the ball both defensively and in the attack, his physicality in duels with defenders and in tracking back and winning balls, and his overall understanding of space. I don't think its any coincidence that a big period of Odegaard's drop in form this year has coincided with Kai's injury as he creates a ton of space for Odegaard to operate and also reduces the burden of always leading the press. Personally, I actually feel like we CAN win titles with him leading the line as a striker, as long as there are other pieces around him and we aren't relying on him to be our #1 goal scorer. Put goal scoring wingers and a pair of midfielders who can box crash and score goals around Kai and that attack is absolutely deadly. Add in a more direct #9 as competition and as a player who can play along with him in a 4-2-2-2 and we have new ways to attack teams, including the dreaded mid-low block.

Imagine him playing alongside Gyokeres against teams that press high or a physical mid block like Fulham. Raya would just need to play one long ball to Havertz to win in the air while Gyokeres is making runs behind him for either a flick on into space or for a second ball that Kai or Odegaard has latched onto after the initial duel win. I've said this multiple times in the last month but if we can just add different options, and not necessarily players that instantly displace our current starters, we will be so much harder to defend against next year. Imagine we bring in Gyokeres/Williams/Zubimendi as the bare minimum. Already we can line up as we do today with Martinelli/Havertz/Saka leading the line and Odegaard/Rice/Zubimendi behind them - which we know can produce and is a very solid lineup. But then we can also decide to go to a 4-2-2-2 with Havertz/Gyokeres in front of Williams/Saka and a double pivot of Rice/Zubimendi. And there are tons of other options as well but that type of tactical flexibility is what we need alongside a couple of new players with standout traits to win games (1v1 ability on the wings, ball striking up top) in order to take us to the next level IMO.

Qwiss

samthegooner I don't think its any coincidence that a big period of Odegaard's drop in form this year has coincided with Kai's injury

They don't coincide. Odegaards form dropped before Kai got injured. Completely unrelated.

Bernard Woolley yeah even talking him up its "work rate and duels" not silky skills, shooting, nose for goal, etc Kais a decent player but he's someone who needs to be high up in the rotation rather than a starter. These are the margins you need to close to actually win the big prizes.

samthegooner I hate when people say things like "Well Haaland only cost 60m" or "Kvara was there in the winter for 65m" while completely ignoring that there were substantial agent fees involved that they don't have to make public.

Wages like Haalands are a reasonable thing to point to but mystery fees are just bullshit excuses. We can only deal in the known. We could afford Kvaratskhelia, we didn't go for him. Honestly this is starting to come across as half excuse making half conspiracy theory at this stage.

Bernard Woolley

It's not about fitting in a box but having a standout attribute. Kai is good at many things but not great at anything and that's what you expect for a 65M player. In some ways, it's Arteta's fault for paying 65M for him and playing him as our first choice striker since the expectation created by those facts are what he is measured against. As far as scoring wingers are concerned, having Kai in the striker position actually hobbled Martinelli's scoring and ability to get in the box and Arteta had to change his role to holding width down the left side to accommodate Kai's movement, so not sure that's necessarily how he plays.

samthegooner

Coombs 1000%. I hate when people say things like "Well Haaland only cost 60m" or "Kvara was there in the winter for 65m" while completely ignoring that there were substantial agent fees involved that they don't have to make public. Everything we have read about the Haaland deal states that the transfer fee was actually lower than ancillary fees paid to his father and I've also read similar things about Kvara's deal with PSG and the agent fees involved. It would be nice if we got full transparency on the total cost of ownership of players and those figures were used moving forward instead of just the publicly reported transfer fee.

flobaba

Coombs Are you a wizard?

Lol, idiot.

E: use the "insult" in the friendliest of ways

Big Willie

samthegooner 1000%. I hate when people say things like "Well Haaland only cost 60m" or "Kvara was there in the winter for 65m" while completely ignoring that there were substantial agent fees involved that they don't have to make public. Everything we have read about the Haaland deal states that the transfer fee was actually lower than ancillary fees paid to his father and I've also read similar things about Kvara's deal with PSG and the agent fees involved.

The thing is, we do have plenty of that Walmart money as Dules used to call it. Our main restrictions are PSR or whatever its called now, and our own want to stay well within those limits.

Not exactly sure how deals like Haaland or Kvara factor into PSR calculations, but it seems like there’s an advantage in going into transfers with relatively low transfer fees and instead paying larger sums to agents or family members separately. That kind of setup might not count directly against the PSR cap, but who knows.

Not sure about the exact rules on what's allowed or where the line is drawn between what has to be reported and what can be done under the table so as to not affect PSR. But looking at it again, if we have the money and are only restricted by PSR, then it may be brtter for the club if we can get away with it without the fear of a points deductions or relegation. That would helps us buy the players we want without the PSR repercussions of spending all the money in the open.

If you can't beat em, then join them and whatnot, and win using their own dirty methods.

RocktheCasbah

I think all Gazza is saying is that he really didn't like us signing Havertz.

Given the contribution Kai has made to the first team since moving to centre forward, you could argue £65m was a bargain. Even more so if you look at the "opportunity cost" argument from another angle and maybe the issue for Arsenal last summer wasn't actually budget, but availability of targets.

Yes, he can be a bit clumsy in his play and his finishing at times. Nobody's perfect. I remember Wrighty having a shot which went out for a throw in once.

HomeSteak

RocktheCasbah He has done well, but bargain? Come on lol. 75 mil transfer, 280k per week - British pounds - for 13 goals is not a bargain. We don't know how much we paid his agent, but it was not free, from a PL report we know we spent over 30 mil on agent fees that year, I'm sure he got some of that.
His salary for 5 years will be 73 mil, pounds. Bargain...he got out scored by a few players last year, just to name a few: Solanke, Watkins , Mateta, Bowen. This season until his injury it was kinda the same, out scored by names like Mateta, Mbeumo , Wood, Kluivert or Chuna. And I'm not saying they are better players, and he brings other things...just pointing out that he is not a bargain, not even close.

He his in the top 5 best paid players in the league by a lot of reports & like the 12th most expensive player in PL history...how is he bargain? But it's not even about the stats.
We paid all that for him to be our main CM, 2 years out...we still need that CM. We moved him to the number 9 as Jesus quit football for good, and 2 years out...what are we talking about? paying 100 mil + for a striker.
As good as he has been, and I do like him, he has been by far the biggest mistake Arteta has made. He fucked our budget, our salaries and filled 0 of our needs.
Honest question, we get Isak, let's say? And Zubimendi. Ok? What happens to the bargain? He won't be a starter here.

Klaus

RocktheCasbah I remember Wrighty having a shot which went out for a throw in once.

He also managed to get 185 of them into the net though!

Life is just so much easier for everyone with great goalscorers around. Doesn't particularly matter if you put them on the wing or in the centre, but one thing that is even rarer than goalscoring strikers is goalscoring wingers. Gotta have an outlet somewhere.

« Previous Page Next Page »