• The Arsenal

  • Arsenal - Aston Villa, Today, In about 3 and a half hours.

Don Pacifico
It shows those that doubted the summer window, doubted the fact we would get countless chances at trophies and that this ‘good will’ would last forever were right.

It’s a crisis when you are effectively out of 3 trophies by Jan when you were supposed to challenge for the title and/or win trophies after the last 2 years. Having what looks like a back to back shit transfer window esp after all our injuries adds fuel to the fire. It is all relative.

Manage your time on here if you think it will be all roses. There are a lot of pissed off gooners and rightly so.

      Qwiss I think all Claudius is saying is whilst we're clearly not where we want to be right now, Arteta has done excellently to have us second despite the red cards; despite the injuries; despite the fact we can't catch a break on VAR and, yes; a sub optimal summer transfer window.

      And you don't really ever see that fact acknowledged in a lot of the posting here. I can't really remember a season like this one, where something seems to go against us in every game and for all that, we are looking down on all but one Premier League team.

      I don't think Arteta should be, or is, above criticism - but that criticism really should take account of the circumstances this season has played out in.

          RocktheCasbah
          How much of it is Arteta’s doing?

          He signed Kai. He sold ESR and put Nelson on loan.

          Arteta has fallen out with approx 50 percent of his signings which is a huge red flag.

          Kiowir hasn’t seen a sniff of action since his mistake v Palace away a month ago, that was an Arteta £30m signing.

          It’s Arteta who over played Saka resulting in him getting injured.

          It’s Arteta who after 4 years doesn’t have a proper Ode or Saka backup.

          It’s Arteta who plays Partey at right back.

          It’s Arteta who splashes cash on an injury prone Cala who we didn’t really need or signing his countryman Merino who is not made for the Prem.

          It’s Arteta spending money on Kai who is hit and miss at best.

          You can talk about injuries and bad luck all you want but most of this season is on Arteta. The buck stops with the manager. Excuses FC.

            • Tam

            • Post #329

            RocktheCasbah see that’s the thing, he’s had many faults either manifest or evidence themselves this season, yet he’s still being described as doing excellently.

            Yes we’re second. And granted there have been so many things done against us this year. However we’re effectively 9 points off the pace, and in any other year we’d be third. The positive picture you’re painting is greatly helped by the fact Man City have had an unprecedented collapse.

            Too much is made of comparing us to others and previous seasons. Look at where we are and how we are performing. Poor league performances and disastrous cup games.

                Tam I don't really know how to respond to this. You're probably right, at least to a certain degree, but I just can't relate to this level of unhappiness with the manager or team. And I say that as someone who's put his hand in his pocket to go and watch them quite a lot this season. The only game I've been really disappointed by was the Newcastle cup game & even that we should have won.

                Yeah, we fucked the summer - but until I know the manager bears 100% responsibility for that, I'm not prepared to hang him for it. If you know differently, please do enlighten me.

                And as for our position being made rosey by City's collapse, would it not also be fair to say that were Liverpool not on pace for a 90 point season, something nobody saw coming and (for the record not something I think they'll do) there would be a lot less angst on here?

                    Sicario2 - Tier 1 It’s a crisis when you are effectively out of 3 trophies by Jan when you were supposed to challenge for the title and/or win trophies after the last 2 years.

                    The way you define crises, I'd worry that life must seem a very traumatic place for you mate. Things haven't gone as well as we'd like but there's still a lot to feel positive about the health/state of the club and I see no reason why we can't go again next season and beyond. Yes, it feels like a massive missed opportunity but I can accept that and move on.

                    Sicario2 - Tier 1 Manage your time on here if you think it will be all roses. There are a lot of pissed off gooners and rightly so.

                    Being disappointed doesn't excuse the baseless/unbalanced anger of some (by no means all) directed at every aspect of the club. Reading that is pretty tedious. Frankly, the vitriol I heard from some fans last night was not only pathetic but completely disproportionate to the situation. You'd think this was the Wenger era of infinite 4th place finishes and no title challenges.

                          Don Pacifico Frankly, the vitriol I heard from some fans last night was not only pathetic but completely disproportionate to the situation.

                          even here:
                          being angry at Odegard for not busting a gut. The same Odegaard that's been pressing and leading the press the whole match.
                          being angry at Kai for the temerity of having arms.

                          That's why I avoid this place whenever we have a bad result. Even twitter is solace.

                            • Qwiss

                            • Post #333
                            • Edited

                            RocktheCasbah we've had a lot of poor results lately so naturally people are going to dig into the reasons for that. A lot of people thought that selection was off on Saturday, a lot of people were disappointed by our summer business, so obviously we are going to talk about these 2 issues when we blow a 2 goal lead that's probably our last chance to really challenge for the title. Like I say we aren't calling for his head but it's not really a week where people are going to be singing his praises.

                            There's been some silly over the top praise for Arteta at times too. Claims this teams better than the invincibles and I regularly see Wenger compared unfavorably to Arteta (which is ludicrous btw).

                            Artetas done a good job the last 2 seasons but people want to see him learn from his mistakes and improve to a point where we actually win trophies. I don't understand why that's so shocking.

                                Man - Saturday still burns. Liverpool winning in stoppage time and us dropping a two goal lead. Could have so easily been a 2 point gap this morning. Fuck. This absolutely fucking sucks.

                                RocktheCasbah The only game I've been really disappointed by was the Newcastle cup game & even that we should have won

                                You weren't disappointed in the FA cup game? I see all this bad luck and poor refs excuses but we had the better of it in that match winning a penalty for a clear dive.

                                    Qwiss Maybe initially. Definitely initially, in fact. I thought I saw Arsenal dissolve in front of my eyes - and then I realised that this is football and you can have games like this, especially in that terrible all white kit.

                                    The bottom line for me is United scored from the one chance they had and defended for their lives, successfully. We didn't play well and, yes, things went our way for about 5 minutes in the second half - but we've all watched enough football to know when your destiny isn't really in your own hands. Or feet.

                                      Qwiss Artetas done a good job the last 2 seasons but people want to see him learn from his mistakes and improve to a point where we actually win trophies. I don't understand why that's so shocking.

                                      I'm not shocked people want Arteta to learn from mistakes and want Arsenal to win trophies. It's been 21 years since we won the Premier League and I am as desperate for us to win it as anyone else, but I can also recognise when things aren't going our way. And we've had about 5 months of it.

                                      Thinking about all this last night, and the fact me and my uncle haven't talked Arsenal since the Bournemouth game, I realised that having grown up watching Arsenal with 2 incredibly negative men, my natural tendency now is to try and be positive about things (watching football with James for nearly 20 years has also helped give me a different, less emotional perspective) and whilst you guys are having nervous breakdowns about our failure to win the league, I'm looking at us and thinking, "wow, all these problems we've had this season and we're still second, we must be really good!"

                                      😃

                                          RocktheCasbah "all these problems" are normal and mostly excuse making. Like I said where were all these problems against United? Our problems against Villa were of our own making. What terrible injustice was there against Newcastle?

                                          Some decisions go your way, some go against you. We've had a decent few weeks of big ref decisions and yet we've slipped back in the league again and effectively gone out of 2 cups.

                                              Qwiss Okay, so I'm making excuses. So what?

                                              I'd rather be where I am than using up mental energy, stressing about things which are completely beyond my control.

                                              I never said anything about "terrible injustices", but I am glad you mentioned Newcastle, because when I said "things aren't going our way", that's like a classic example. Martinelli is played through, one on one, it's a nice bit of football to get him in. He smashes the post and the ball flies away. Five minutes later, Newcastle get a bit of a lucky break and the ball lands at Isak's feet. He also hits the woodwork, but the ball bounces down and in.

                                              Two moments in a match that could have gone either way, we didn't get the rub either time. That's football, that's life. As dispirited as I felt walking away from the Emirates that night, I still recognise that we could easily have won that game and Newcastle wouldn't have had any complaints.

                                              So what's the point in being angry about it?

                                              I don't think it's normal to have had at least one (and most of the time, 2/3) of Saka, Odegaard and Ben White unavailable basically since the start of the season. It certainly hasn't been our normal anyway.

                                                  • Qwiss

                                                  • Post #340

                                                  RocktheCasbah I'd rather be where I am than using up mental energy, stressing about things which are completely beyond my control.

                                                  Well you are stressing about our reactions so its all even in the grand scheme of things.

                                                      Qwiss I'm absolutely not stressing mate, you're entitled to your opinion and obviously I'm aware it's one shared by more than few people. I think it's possible to acknowledge that there is at least a grain of truth in that opinion, but also say that with a slightly better rub of the green we would be a lot closer to Liverpool than we currently are.

                                                          RocktheCasbah I think it goes both ways. Maybe you don't see enough comments saying that part of why we're so far behind Liverpool are due to injuries, but you probably didn't see many comments last season saying that part of why we ended up so far ahead of Liverpool were due to their injuries either.

                                                              • Qwiss

                                                              • Post #344

                                                              RocktheCasbah I'm absolutely not stressing mate

                                                              Neither are the rest of us, we are just having a chat.

                                                              I just don't buy the rub of the green stuff. You make your own luck. Yeah we've had bad ref decisions against us but like I say the last couple of weeks we've had some favourable ones too. We beat Spurs with that corner, we got an unfair penalty against United, etc

                                                                • Gurgen

                                                                • Post #345
                                                                • Edited

                                                                Actually research proves you don't make your own luck. You can be extremely lucky over the course of an entire season (e.g. Leicester title winning season) or extremely unlucky (e.g. Arsenal in the same season).