Arteta needs to sort out our discipline issues pronto

Sicario2 - Tier 1

3 red cards in 8 games is on the manager.

Yes, some of them were harsh but we can’t simply continue like this. We won’t win anything with ten men on the pitch.

Arteta needs to drill it into them the importance of staying composed and in control.

He needs to educate the players that ref’s ref us differently so we need to be extra careful and extra aware.

It’s not just the particular game we drop points in, it’s the subsequent bans and the domino effect it has on the team etc.

Arteta needs to sort this out ASAP.

Claudius

Let's assess each red card before we come up with a grand conclusion.
Yesterday's card was down to a loss of control in the game.
The other two cards - I'd say were down to a loss of control by the refs more than anything.
I need to see more evidence before I declare us undisciplined masters of dark arts

Mirth

Sort what exactly?

Rice's red card was ridiculous and none of our rivals will ever be sent off for anything like that.

Trossard's red card was equally ridiculous but perhaps he should have known how shit the refs are given Rice's sending off.

Saliba was sent off for bad defending/a poor backpass from Trossard - no ill discipline there.

lorddulaarsenal

We do need to seemingly tread more carefully around refs.

Think a better plan is to start games on the front foot and attack teams harder.

JazzG

I don’t agree with this thread, nothing to suggest our discipline is out of control. Two reds which were down to refs wanting to send a message imo. Rice and Trossard both got sent off because the refs made the rules up as they went along. The mental gymnastics in trying to justify this has shown they don’t have a leg to stand on. Saliba was a 50/50 call, plenty to argue both ways.

Take emotions out of this, we need to think critically and analyse the situation. This isn’t like a few years ago when players being sent off because we kept putting ourselves into positions where desperate tackles needed to be made.

Burnwinter

Saw a infographic saying we'd had 18 reds since Arteta started with us which is 5 more than any other club since 2019.

I remember the narrative used to be that players like Xhaka and Gabriel lacked mettle and we'd "melt down". Now the narrative is that we're masters of the "dark arts" but simultaneously too green to avoid "giving the refs a chance".

I believe we're refereed a bit more harshly than other clubs on average. I don't believe we've got a discipline problem: this current Arsenal is the best marshalled and organised Arsenal I've ever seen, every facet and phase of our performances is carefully drilled.

In another perfectly reasonable world we wouldn't have had a single player sent off this season.

All that having been said, we should actually pull our necks in and never give these corrupt fuckers at PGMOL another chance this season.

Mirth

Burnwinter Saw a infographic saying we'd had 18 reds since Arteta started with us which is 5 more than any other club since 2019.

That infographic doesn't tell the whole story though, last season we only had 2 red cards and the season before that was zero. Avoiding red cards was not a problem going into this season

FEBravo

Ridiculous thread

Burnwinter

Mirth I agree, but then cards aren't the only decisions either, we're only a year out from the "disgrace" at St James Park.

I suspect most of PGMOL's "corruption" of being what Galbraith would've called "innocent fraud". There are systems and process issues, personnel and skill base issues, and complex conflicts of interest in effect.

The best fix short of burning PGMOL down would be factoring referee recruitment and development out of PGMOL, and increasing salaries at the same time as re-enforcing standards and probity. Re-professionalising football's technical bureaucracy in other words.

As Arsenal fans we will obviously feel like we've been getting screwed, but there's a more general problem. Standards are too low, systems are broken, and there are too many lateral interests in play for the referee contingent.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

I think this issue of ref’s fucking us over is masking the fact we may just not be good enough. That’s the harsh reality.

Lukazan

Sicario2 - Tier 1 It's not though, at all. We'd have beaten both City and Brighton with 11. The red came early yesterday so who knows, but even if we'd slipped up, that would still have left us in a very good position. The refs are bent and this thread is embarrassing.

Qwiss

All our reds have been bullshit.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Qwiss

This is more concerning than ref’s mate:

As I said we need to score when we are dominating to counter any ref BS.

I just feel this whole ref chat is deflection from a lack of quality, Ill discipline and our general flaws.

USArsenal

Qwiss

White's was 100% bullshit.. Trossard's was 50% bullshit, but 50% stupid by Trossard.. Saliba's was not necessarily bullshit, but it really could have gone either way. I don't think it should have been a red considering the distance from goal and that he never even touched the ball, but Saliba did bring him down foolishly

Qwiss

Sicario2 - Tier 1 well we certainly lack a prolific goal scorer but we've won every match where we played with 11 men. A dodgy red every 3 games isn't a "quality" issue.

Burnwinter

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Sorry what's the normal rate of scoring from "big chances" though? That's one of those bogus stats with a lot of wiggle in it.

We went through a long pre-New Year "finishing crisis" last season then started scoring absolute bags. Everyone would love us to have a deadly forward of course, but ...

Coombs

Sicario2 - Tier 1 I just feel this whole ref chat is deflection from a lack of quality, Ill discipline and our general flaws.

Well, your feelings are wrong. We are all criticizing refs, team, and manager at once while you parrot talkshite radio.

Claudius

Burnwinter nobody knows what a big chance is.

Gurgen

We don't have discipline issues, we have corrupt ref issues. Those 18 red cards include at least 8 that wouldn't have been given to any other team.

Claudius

Gurgen I don’t know if I agree with not given to other teams. But they were definitely incompetent red cards

kamikaze

Gurgen Exactly this. I don't have the time or memory to list them all, but there's the 2 yellow cards in one sequence for Martinelli, there's the 2nd yellow on a throw-in by Tomiyasu, there's the Rice incident, there's Trossard (it was the whistle to end the half so not possible to delay the game - this one had the most gaslighting).

We know about Oliver and Tierney. Gillett was VAR ref against Bournemouth and he supports Liverpool. Because of course he does.

Whether it's pettiness, north/south bias, or bribery, it's undeniable that we get called for things that literally no one else does. Is PGMOL impossible to corrupt when it has happened recently in Spain and Italy? I'm sick of talking about the refs. I wish the league would sack them all and start over with refs from around the globe.