PSV vs Arsenal, Tuesday : Page 8 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

PSV vs Arsenal, Tuesday

HomeSteak

Meh, don't care

Don Pacifico

lorddulaarsenal good run-out for Nelson, Nketiah and Ramsdale but not much else in the way of positives to take out of it.

Clrnc

Feel so sorry for our young players

Panda

Yeah sad not to give them a run out. They will never break through with this manager.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Panda really disappointing aspect of Arteta's tenure. A red mark in fact.

lorddulaarsenal

Bizarre not to give them minutes.

USArsenal

We just lost to Villa, and I am sure he was trying to not have us lose a second game in a row (bad for morale). I know game didn't technically matter, but keeping the positive feelings and considering it was an away game, i am not surprised he did not give minutes to the young ones.

Daz

USArsenal
See I just don't buy this either as a rationale or an excuse. This was an ideal time to give an opportunity to our younger players and rest first teamers. Arteta should be capable of managing player morale in the possible scenario that we lost this match after fielding a 'B' team.

Clrnc

USArsenal if only this is an one off. I think throughout his tenure when push come to shove he has always preferred to start a useless over the hill player than to blood a youth teamer. Time and time again.

Previously against Zurich and Dundalk nonsense team they didn't get any look in too.

QuincyAbeyie

Oh, I certainly wasn't surprised at all.

flobaba

Daz yup. Valuable learning curve acceleration opportunity missed.

Burnwinter

Arteta takes the piss with these selections, doesn't he? The one thing you can be sure of is he'll rotate even less than you pessimistically imagine. Pleased he actually rested Saka, and Ødegaard for the most part. Then he goes to the post match presser and pats himself on the back for bringing Smith Rowe on for five minutes!

The three youngsters who travelled might've read twenty match previews apiece excitedly proclaiming how this might their chance to impress. Then they sit there and spectate a relatively pointless encounter. It's all a bit silly but it's how we do it under Super Mik.

Huge amount of league football left this month, starting with hosting a dangerous, wounded Brighton at the Emirates on Monday …

Don Pacifico

Burnwinter Then he goes to the post match presser and pats himself on the back for bringing Smith Rowe on for five minutes!

I know you're being flippant but I think that was more to manage his recovery from injury than anything else.

RocktheCasbah I agree with a lot of what you're saying but when we're currently short a bit of depth in some positions and the depth available are youth players that have never played 90 minutes, at some point you have to give them pitch time so they can get a feel for senior football. When today was a dead rubber, there aren't going to be many better chances than this. And we're not talking about 11 youth players coming in, we had three in the squad yesterday.

It's a vicious cycle because by not giving them a chance in matches like this, it gives them even less of a chance being under consideration for matches that are of more importance, which leads to a situation where we're playing Rice at CB, Partey at RB, Cedric at LB and Elneny in midfield. Not only is that a waste of 1 (arguably 2) of our best players but it's an investment in three players who likely won't be around next season. Cedric in particular doesn't suit the way we play, is a level below what's required and is out of contract in the summer. In that situation, I struggle to understand why Walters doesn't get a run-out.

Jed

I think Bayern played Man Utd with nothing at stake and didn’t blood any youngsters either. At the end of the day Mikel is trying to turn this club into a winning one - part of that involves setting elite standards and maintaining those standards consistently meaning even a so-called meaningless match in the Champions League must still be taken seriously and approached in a professional way and that’s fair enough. The kids will get their opportunity when the appropriate time comes. No rush.

flobaba

Jed Bayern are in a totally different situation to us. They just lost 5-1. That's what you call a crisis, and they need(ed) to bounce back strong.

We need to rest our first teamers for what is obviously going to be a grind of a season.

Burnwinter

Jed At the end of the day Mikel is trying to turn this club into a winning one - part of that involves setting elite standards and maintaining those standards consistently meaning even a so-called meaningless match in the Champions League must still be taken seriously and approached in a professional way and that’s fair enough.

It's not really important to reach a final conclusion on this stuff, but from my point of view a well run club always takes the chance to expose its young starlets in competitive football.

The only rationale I see for the way Arteta goes about it is the usual one in his case—he doesn't like to make any moves that reduce his authority, or create special expectations for any player whatsoever. I guess there is some value in that, we certainly don't have any United style discontentment about his practices. But it leads to this making a point of zigging on team selection where another manager might zag. And his justification after the fact is usually "any top, top player needs to [expect this] [do what I say] [buckle the fuck up]" …

RocktheCasbah

The amount of second guessing that this on here with Arteta is mad, you'd have thought we were still plugging away in the Europa League and and still 8th in the Prem. You guys might not like his methods (well, it's clear a lot of you don't), but if you look at the bigger picture, he's doing pretty well, isn't he?

Daz

RocktheCasbah
All I see some folks doing here is pointing out that this squad management is still a clear weakness of Arteta. Nobody's crying "Arteta out" here. Surely we able to discuss his weaknesses while still appreciating his overall achievements and strengths?

Big Willie

RocktheCasbah you'd have thought we were still plugging away in the Europa League and and still 8th in the Prem

Well even then we'd end up playing every expeienced player we could roll out on a wheelchair ahead of a youth player even in dead rubber EL games or League Cup games. At the time it was we can't play them because we are trying to get back into CL and we don't have the luxury of a settled team to play them. Now it is we can't play them because we aren't 8th and in the EL. Soon it'll be we are competing to win the CL and the PL where every game is must win so no chance to play them.

You're right though, some people will will find ways to be upset wih Arteta no matter what he does. There are also some people who will find a way of justifying everything he does at any given moment.

Burnwinter

Second guessing or whatever it is you're doing (preemptive, emotive third guessing, is it?), the tragedy is that among football followers, it's all fair game Paul. Merry Christmas amigo 🎄

RocktheCasbah

Burnwinter Second guessing or whatever it is you're doing (preemptive, emotive third guessing, is it?), the tragedy is that among football followers, it's all fair game Paul. Merry Christmas amigo

Wow.

You've got me in knots here trying to work out why you've tacked a Merry Christmas message onto the end of this post. I'm not second (or even third) guessing, I've heard and read what Arteta had to say post match and I'm taking it at face value. He's explained why he did what he did, I'm good with it. Of course, the rest of you have the right not to be - I just think there is a slight overreaction going on here. It leads me to believe that I think I probably trust Arteta in ways that you (the royal you) don't quite yet - and maybe never will.

And a Merry Christmas to you too.

RocktheCasbah

Don Pacifico I agree with a lot of what you're saying but when we're currently short a bit of depth in some positions and the depth available are youth players that have never played 90 minutes, at some point you have to give them pitch time so they can get a feel for senior football. When today was a dead rubber, there aren't going to be many better chances than this. And we're not talking about 11 youth players coming in, we had three in the squad yesterday.

I guess I just think that this is Arsenal Football Club and minutes shouldn't just be handed out to players, they need to be earned. Clarence said yesterday "I feel so sorry for our young players" or words to that effect. Do we really think they wouldn't have been happy just to have been on the plane and around the squad for a European matchday? Nwanweri is 16 for God's sake, it's not like there isn't, and won't be, time to blood him. Of course they would have wanted to play, but the reality is they're playing for a club in the process of reestablishing itself as a domestic and European superpower - they aren't going to be "given" chances - and nor should they be.

I say all that and I do generally agree with the point that giving minutes to someone like Cedric seems like a waste of everyone's time, but I guess the reality of our situation is that if Ben White goes down with an injury, he is the next cab off the rank for now, so we do need to get some minutes into his legs.

For Walters, it must be a case of close, but yet so far as he seems to have been around the squad for ages now without being given a chance.

goon

Yeah, I’m not getting hung up over this, but I’ve always hated giving time to waste of space squad players with no future vs genuine talent.

Despite the rose tinted view, Wenger was the same in his latter years, especially when his squad become too big.

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