Edu: Sporting Director … or high-priced bagman?: Page 6 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Edu: Sporting Director … or high-priced bagman?

RocktheCasbah

Clrnc He only came back to the team this season when Tomi was injured tbh, although that is only for this season.

For last season, Tomi was wildly out of form but Ben White played very well at RB, better than the previous season at CB.

Whichever way round you want to do this, Ben White has played for Arsenal 99% of the time he's been available for us. This is not the case for either Tomiyasu and, now, Alex Zinchenko.

I'm not saying we won't move beyond him - in a way I hope we do because it means our standards will raise again. I am questioning the specific assertion that us signing him was not a good use of our funds. Even if we moved him on this summer, which I think we would be mad to do given the cover he gives us across two positions, it doesn't invalidate the decision made to sign him in 2021. Unless, of course, you're coming from a position where he was never good enough to play for us to begin with - but I would also question that assertion.

Meatwad

it wasn't a good use of resources in 2021 because we already had a promising CB in saliba. the player was there, it's the manager that didn't want him.

RocktheCasbah

The same manager that then put him in the team a year later? What changed, do you think?

Meatwad

RocktheCasbah
so in 2021 saliba wasn't good enough for 8th place arsenal and in 2022 he is the best CB in the league. so that's the jump he made, it's not possible that in 2021 he was a better CB than ben white (who wasn't ever and isn't close to being a top tier CB) because arteta said so and we need to spend 50m at that position.

RocktheCasbah

Meatwad maybe it was less about the player (although as it happens I do think there's a bit about Saliba's readiness) and a bit more about the environment and structure around the player in 2021. I know loads of you don't want to hear it, but maybe the Arsenal of 2021 wasn't the right space to put a 20 year old kid, no matter his potential, in at centre back.

Ultimately, it's a question of trust, isn't it? Arteta has access to much more information than either you, or I. And he obviously made a call (alongside Edu) that we needed to bring someone else in to bridge the gap. I trust that he made that call in good faith - you, very clearly, don't.

Claudius

RocktheCasbah what you’re saying by makes a lot of sense. The thing with Saliba, Martinelli, etc. we always hear that Arteta has beef with the player (people just make up Netflix soapies in their heads), but then when Arteta thinks they’re ready, he uses them all the time.

RocktheCasbah

What I don't understand about your argument is that, whatever the reasons behind it, the signing of Ben White has demonstrably strengthened our defence - surely that should be the aim? We've all talked about player loads, players being run into the ground (the apparently unnecessary Ben White being one of them as it happens) and yet I'm sitting here defending this signing three years later. Are we supposed to just play Gabi and Wilo until they break?

In any case, you said it yourself, in 2021 Saliba was "promising", there weren't any guarantees there.

Meatwad

RocktheCasbah
in 2020 saliba was promising. in 2021 he was good enough.

and right now in 2023-24 we're playing gabi and wilo until they break and i don't disagree with that. they're not suppose to break. yes it can happen, but that 50m in case of emergency option probably wouldn't even replace either of them.

RocktheCasbah

Meatwad and yet Ben White did displace Gabriel right at the start of the season. I mentioned White's durability previously, would you really have wanted to put the load he carried in his first season onto a 20 year old kid?

Look, I'm not saying there aren't things I wish Arteta hadn't done, but as I said yesterday, signing Ben White would be right at the bottom of that list.

Claudius

RocktheCasbah yeah. It’s clear Arteta loves White. One thing that I do appreciate about Edu/Arteta is that they don’t spend money on players and then toss aside players, or have players who can’t function together.

Egregious late stage Wenger examples included buyer Lacazette, only to get Auba 6 months later - toyoa £115m. Or buying Perez for £20m, benching him and loaning him back to his team.

Clrnc

RocktheCasbah would you really have wanted to put the load he carried in his first season onto a 20 year old kid?

He had the same load on loan for 2 seasons in a row while we are playing Mustafi and Luiz before buying Ben White.

The same imaginary "protect" Saliba hypnosis is as grey as the rift theory. In fact reading from all of Saliba interviews in France you don't need to be a genius to know he wasn't happy and didn't want to go on loan. If it was part of the plan and communicated clearly to him he would never have spoke out against Arteta like that. Of course now he's reintegrated into the team and all is happy he has to put in better words and stop mentioning those days

Meatwad

RocktheCasbah
i'm glad you bring up gabriel starting the season on the bench and right sided saliba playing on the left. another one of arteta's i'm smarter than everyone else's moves.

Qwiss

Claudius One thing that I do appreciate about Edu/Arteta is that they don’t spend money on players and then toss aside players,

or have players who can’t function together.

Burnwinter

White's never looked anything other than a fine player here. If we could get a player as good as Ben White every time we spent £50–100m, we'd be set.

With those odds, where we've now got Timber, Zinchenko, Jesus, Vieira, Tomiyasu and Havertz for £200m+, we'd probably have one great inverting left back, a great left 8 and a great striker, as opposed to six men each with varying challenges to fitness, form and suitability.

It's a lesson we should learn when we're looking for this missing link striker now.

Claudius

Clrnc what’s the end outcome?

RocktheCasbah

Clrnc He had the same load on loan for 2 seasons in a row

In Ligue Un. Not the same demands as the Premier League.

Meatwad

Claudius
FFP got us in a stranglehold.

Clrnc

Claudius that it could have been better earlier and further proof that Saliba is absolutely class

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah but I don't see how you've got to the conclusion that Arteta is losing faith in him. I mean, as I posted above, he basically plays ALL the time. He's missed one league game this season.

Because all the other fullbacks have been injured regularly. When he had Tomi and Zinchenko available he played both. I'd rather he dropped Zinchenko out of those 3 but he didn't. Timbers been injured all season, we spent big on him and he would have started most games. That leaves 3 other full backs and I don't believe White is top of Artetas list out of the 3.

Daz

Qwiss
Well, that's a bit awkward

Qwiss

People just need to admit Arteta got it wrong that season with Saliba. He was ready and we sent him on another loan. Probably cost us CL football too.

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