Jesus: Page 33 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Jesus

MistaT

It's an interesting question - are we playing with two 8's or a combo (Xhaka at 8 / Odegaard at 10)?

It appears more like two 8's to me based off single game heatmaps. Would love to see an aggregated heatmap (full season) to see if there's any difference in positioning.

The other argument I suppose would be less around positioning and more about intent on the ball. In which case, it's pretty clear that Odegaard is more of a 10 while Xhaka is an 8.

Doc

MistaT Would love to see an aggregated heatmap (full season) to see if there's any difference in positioning.

Was just looking at this. Not huge difference. Maybe slight more defensive responsibility

https://www.sofascore.com/player/martin-odegaard/547410

https://www.sofascore.com/player/granit-xhaka/117777

Mirth

Meatwad yeah, both of them play as 8s but Odegaard usually presses more whereas Xhaka drops down to cover Zinchenko. I can't see Trossard having the awareness to dropp down but he'd press fairly well I reckon

Coombs

Xhaka's a 6/8 and Odegaard's an 8/10.

banduan

Coombs Xhaka's a 6/8 and Odegaard's an 8/10.

Xhaka's playing like a pure 8 nowadays tbh. Gets into both boxes.

goon

I have noticed Xhaka plays a lot deeper when Jorginho plays. Not as a 6 as such but definitely doesn’t push up as high. Shows how much freedom Partey provides for us to go a little more out.

MistaT

Not much to do about Jesus here, but an interesting discussion.

As for that left flank, it's certainly where Arteta has been most creative and tinkered. Have to imagine that's because the right flank has been so productive with Odegaard/Saka and that those two need to hide their flaws less.

We've seen:

Tierney and Maitlind Niles as a hybrid winger, with Xhaka at LCB
Aubemayang as a left winger
Zinchenko in a free role with Gabriel slightly forward to cover

Coombs

I think it's as much about what happens off the ball as on it. Xhaka covers for Zinchenko in the buildup on the ball, and is tasked with making the late run into the box in the attacking third. Odegaard has much more positional freedom so he can roam looking for combinations and exploit space. Off the ball, Odegaard is often the pressing trigger in a 442 supporting the striker, while Xhaka is often much deeper alongside Partey. Looking at those season heat maps backs up this interpretation - Xhaka is relatively stationary compared to Odegaard popping up everywhere. You can even see how Xhaka tucks in at 6 quite frequently.

Having twin 8s with different auxiliary responsibilities makes us much more solid in defense and fluid in transition. When that balance is off, we look open and things get a little sloppy. Where it sometimes becomes a hindrance is when we are so totally dominant on the ball that the "6" part of Xhaka's role becomes redundant, and his limitations as a 10 become clear.

Burnwinter

"Gabriel Jesus, Arsenal's Master of Chaos"

https://archive.md/TqkWV

De-paywalled puff piece from The Athletic today. Gotta enjoy the degree of unhinged hype around us at the moment. Fun and not totally inaccurate piece, it only reads like fanfic because when he's on, he's that good.

Sensing the need to awaken his team from a comfort level that was only being interrupted by the counter-attacks of Leeds winger Crysencio Summerville, Arsenal’s master of chaos decided it was time to interrupt the rhythm.

Feigning to shoot, he chopped to his left and brought Rasmus Kristensen to his knees. Luke Ayling was next to be dared to believe in certainties. Jesus pulled his left leg back like a trigger and Ayling bought the bluff, another reduced to his backside. There was one more assumption he was ready to undermine, though, and that was that with two victims on the ground, he was finished with them.

Crossing the ball into an area seemed the reasonable option but Jesus’s brain can overwrite decisions at a rate defenders struggle to comprehend. Ayling lifted a desperate leg up to block what he assumed would be a delivery of some sort but instead Jesus ran towards the human heap he had created beneath him like a man running back through the flames.

Burnwinter

Not to be a fair weather friend, but we saw Jesus's limitations a fair bit just now. Spurning presentable chances and getting right into his head. If there's a "choke" going on across the XI I felt he made it worse today.

Clrnc

Burnwinter His misses was unforgivable in such high stakes. Absolutely criminal not to even hit the target.

goon

Burnwinter he’s a chaotic finisher but that’s been the case all season and beyond. But that’s not the same as choking. Watch it back and you’d see he’s involved in so many dangerous moments where even if he’s failing, he’s bringing others alive. I’m convinced if he stayed on vs West Ham we’d have at least created more. I love the guy.

Gurgen

Most frustrating is the inane diving

Tam

Gurgen I spent half of the West Ham game wishing he’s be taken off.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

His face looks fatter.

lorddulaarsenal

My 6 year old asked why Jesus looks worried lol

Burnwinter

goon I love him as well, no argument, but it would be nice to have a striker who was confidently getting on the end of crosses, and taking his chances, he was way off it today and his body language and facial expressions filled me with woe. You could see he was absolutely freaking out about his failures to score.

Qwiss

Jesus is a brilliant player, he's just not a brilliant centre forward. Its an issue, it was always going to be an issue. We need our own Aguero to get things in balance. Or we need a Frank Lampard type figure in the midfield to bang in another 15-20 goals a season on top of what we already have.

goon

I don’t think it is personally, but that’s dependent on what levels Martinelli and Saka are capable of. If they can become 20+ league goal a season players, and they’re not going to be far off this season, then we will be fine. See Liverpool with Salah, Mane and Firminho. Odegaard has double figures too.

All that being said, Jesus has 9 despite missing a third of the season. I’d wager he’d have been our top scorer if not.

Goals are not a problem in this side, we scored 3 yesterday and have scored nearly as many as City despite the record breaking cyborg they have up top. Jesus has played a big part in that, the only period where we struggled for goals and chances was when he was out.

Qwiss

goon I don’t think it is personally, but that’s dependent on what levels Martinelli and Saka are capable of. If they can become 20+ league goal a season players, and they’re not going to be far off this season, then we will be fine. See Liverpool with Salah, Mane and Firminho. Odegaard has double figures too.

Liverpool only managed one title out of 4-5 close attempts though. I guess Odegaard can be what they missed. Though they had a much meaner defence.

goon

Qwiss they lost out on a second and third title by a point each time, one of them with 97 points and scoring a shit ton of goals on the way.

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