"The journey continues" - Mikel signs extension until 2025: Page 14 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

"The journey continues" - Mikel signs extension until 2025

flobaba

Yep, that's the truth but when we noted that here, you had folks saying how negative we are. Our football is bad. It's been bad. A system where everybody has to be top class and on their game all game, or else we get this crap isn't sustainable or realistic.

And now it seems the solution is going to spend more money and ask the new guys to do the same nonsense better.

Shady

AAStyle- wrote:
Get this fraud out of my beloved club. What enrages me is reading his post-match press. "The execution was so poor"? This guy cannot take any blame, every lose is because of someone or something else, if that is what we want as a manager we might have instead hired Mourinho, someone who whines a little bit more but is 20x the manager this charlatan is

I wish someone would execute Arteta.

jones

Anzac

Burnwinter wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Bigger. At least Emery had a cup final.

The issue with Emery was he lost the dressing room.

Jury's out for me on Arteta till we see how the players respond. Another sinking loss to end the season, unsettled players in the summer … especially any of the key youngsters. If he's failed to manage their expectations or fails to manage their disappointment, it's a big disaster.

If not, then it means more of the same.

I would prefer not to go into next season with fractured confidence in the squad. I have to say also, we've been a bit unfortunate but we should have locked this one up a few weeks ago. The way we struggle to cope with injuries or line-up changes also points to an inflexible, brittle manager.

It points to a style of play that demands a perfect storm scenario to be effective, and without having top class players who are ready to perform (as opposed to still being in development), then we will continue to be hit or miss as seen with out results this season.

Anzac

Burnwinter wrote:
Not quite over yet, but it feels like this'll be a bitterly disappointing end to a season where I've frequently taken pleasure in the side.

The sense that we should've inched ahead further with just a couple of key results, and that we're still the type of club that invites defeat through bad calls and gamesmanship isn't going to go away.

Looking at it as rationally as possible, the main thing isn't how I feel, it's how the young players we're relying on to become the foundation of some sort of competitive outfit feel. We're going to spend the summer looking for cracks in "the project" as things stand. It's going to take some real upside signings to lift these negative vibes.

The silver lining for me is that I do believe KSE will keep chucking money at this problem and being proactive until we return to the CL places, which we will still have a decent prospect of doing next year.

Sorry but when push came to shove they kept hold of the money in favour of reducing our operating costs.
We didn't sign anyone in Jan not for want of trying, let alone finishing the rebuild in either the Midfield or the Attack, or to have a spine that is fit for purpose.
I don't expect them to throw money at the problems because they haven't done it to date, and what money they have allowed to be spent hasn't been spent effectively.
As it stands on and off the pitch we are a case of the blind leading the blind, with a rookie manager and a team of youngsters we have effectively backed ourselves into a corner as being the core of the starting players.

jones

I don't like Kroenke one bit but it's just not true that he didn't spend any money.

Anzac

Burnwinter wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Bigger. At least Emery had a cup final.

The issue with Emery was he lost the dressing room.

Jury's out for me on Arteta till we see how the players respond. Another sinking loss to end the season, unsettled players in the summer … especially any of the key youngsters. If he's failed to manage their expectations or fails to manage their disappointment, it's a big disaster.

If not, then it means more of the same.

I would prefer not to go into next season with fractured confidence in the squad. I have to say also, we've been a bit unfortunate but we should have locked this one up a few weeks ago. The way we struggle to cope with injuries or line-up changes also points to an inflexible, brittle manager.

I'd suggest that Arteta has also effectively lost the dressing room.
Even if there is no hostility or attempts to undermine him, the results on the pitch are essentially the same with him failing to get the players to respond either prior to and/or let alone during the match. It's not as if they don't know what was at stake and it's also not the first time we've seen and heard this from Arteta about the players, but it may be the first time he has said so publicly since the clear out in Jan = no excuses.

Anzac

jones wrote:
I don't like Kroenke one bit but it's just not true that he didn't spend any money.

And I didn't say that he hadn't, even though I doubt it was actually his money we were being allowed to spend.

jones

Anzac wrote:
jones wrote:
I don't like Kroenke one bit but it's just not true that he didn't spend any money.

And I didn't say that he hadn't, even though I doubt it was actually his money we were being allowed to spend.

Anzac wrote:
Sorry but when push came to shove they kept hold of the money in favour of reducing our operating costs.

I don't expect them to throw money at the problems because they haven't done it to date

That looks a lot like you did. And of course it's his money, how are we supposed to have come up with 170m last summer when we haven't been in the CL in five years and even outside of Europe altogether, nevermind the shot revenue because of covid.

We've spent 170 million pound sterling last summer, more than anyone else in Europe. Regardless of what you choose to spend it on, you shouldn't need another shot in the arm in the winter especially when it's because you've gifted your striker away. Money isn't the issue and hasn't been for us in a while.

Burnwinter

Anzac wrote:
Sorry but when push came to shove they kept hold of the money in favour of reducing our operating costs.
We didn't sign anyone in Jan not for want of trying, let alone finishing the rebuild in either the Midfield or the Attack, or to have a spine that is fit for purpose.

Anzac, your whole post is off base (they've spent millions and millions), but even in January they pushed the boat out for Vlahovic, he just never had any intention of coming.

Either way, from an investment standpoint it's necessary for us to be Champions League incumbents. The main next opportunity for a step change in club valuation is entry to a European super league. So if they want to make money out of the club longer term, they need to spend up.

The alternative is starting to refine an exit strategy—not an impossible outcome as I hardly think they're more committed to Arsenal than they are to their billions, but it doesn't look like it's the current plan.

I strongly expect they'll be back in the market with £100m to spend this summer, although the kicker may well be at least one player we love going on the shelf.

Anzac

jones wrote:
Anzac wrote:
And I didn't say that he hadn't, even though I doubt it was actually his money we were being allowed to spend.

Anzac wrote:
Sorry but when push came to shove they kept hold of the money in favour of reducing our operating costs.

I don't expect them to throw money at the problems because they haven't done it to date

That looks a lot like you did. And of course it's his money, how are we supposed to have come up with 170m last summer when we haven't been in the CL in five years and even outside of Europe altogether, nevermind the shot revenue because of covid.

We've spent 170 million pound sterling last summer, more than anyone else in Europe. Regardless of what you choose to spend it on, you shouldn't need another shot in the arm in the winter especially when it's because you've gifted your striker away. Money isn't the issue and hasn't been for us in a while.

My comment was in response to the part of Burnwinter's post I had highlighted, when he expects KSE to keep throwing money at the problem. The implication of his comment is that KSE have already thrown money at the problem and my response does not dispute if they have or not, just that they did not continue to do so and I do not think they are likely to continue to throw money at the problem.

And no it's not necessarily his money, and could be sourced via loans as seen with both the pay-out of the stadium bonds loan seen the previous summer, and the loan taken out last June in order to repay the Govt COVID loan. Effectively KSE increased our debt by nearly 300m even before last summer's spending, which I thought was just under 150m rather than 170m.

Regarding the 'shot in the arm' there was a suggestion that KSE had a caveat on any transfer business this season in that we needed to sell before we could buy, and not just in numbers but also in terms of position so we could/would not stockpile players on high wages, and this caused the delays seen in failing to get the deals for Locatelli and Vlahovic over the line before Juve took advantage of the delays. IIRC Guimaraes also said that everything had been lined up for him to join us but at the end of the day we couldn't come up with the money and NUFC did.

As for the part I have bolded I think you'll find I have long said much the same myself even when AW was still here, and even more so since we have had the mega TV deals.

Klaus

Burnwinter wrote:
Either way, from an investment standpoint it's necessary for us to be Champions League incumbents. The main next opportunity for a step change in club valuation is entry to a European super league. So if they want to make money out of the club longer term, they need to spend up.

The alternative is starting to refine an exit strategy—not an impossible outcome as I hardly think they're more committed to Arsenal than they are to their billions, but it doesn't look like it's the current plan.

You're assuming that share prices follow on-pitch success though, but they do not. It's a fact that the value of the club keeps increasing every year even though the team gets worse. Look at what Kroenke bought the club for and what it's currently worth without him lifting a finger. That has to be the best sports investment he has ever made. Why would they change any more than is dictated by absolute necessity when their assets keep increasing in value? It's a perfect setup. The one thing they have been a driving force behind during their time in charge was the Super League, because it would have guaranteed the same thing in perpetuity. That was their limitless meal ticket.

Everything else is just window-dressing, and the money they throw back into the well is a small part of what they have gained through ownership. Everything is tied up in their affairs now. We've indebted to them and not the banks, which is exactly what we didn't want in the first place. They've spent a decade undoing everything we built, everything is worse for it, and they themselves are richer. I simply can't believe there aren't pitchforks in the streets.

jones

Anzac wrote:
Regarding the 'shot in the arm' there was a suggestion that KSE had a caveat on any transfer business this season in that we needed to sell before we could buy, and not just in numbers but also in terms of position so we could/would not stockpile players on high wages, and this caused the delays seen in failing to get the deals for Locatelli and Vlahovic over the line before Juve took advantage of the delays. IIRC Guimaraes also said that everything had been lined up for him to join us but at the end of the day we couldn't come up with the money and NUFC did.

Where was this suggestion, football365? Both Locatelli and Vlahovic have very clearly had their hearts set on Juve from day one, we had 0% chance to sign them at any point. Sassuolo even preferred to sell Locatelli to us because we offered more but he vetoed the move. We also signed players after Locatelli moved to Juventus.

How do you figure these "couldn't come up with the money" reports to be true? Someone at the club, probably Edu starts enquiring about a player he's interested in, he signals he's willing to meet their asking price and then when he's supposed to make a binding offer he goes to ask Kroenke if he can have the money and Kroenke says no? I think our club is run by clowns but even I don't think this is realistic.

Kel Varnsen

Arteta has improved the squad, but that is only a small part of being the manager. He is fucking garbage at handling individual players and he is either tactically incompetent or unable to get his players to execute properly. Either way he's shit at what matters the most. We play dreadful football and there is very little progress even after three years.

ohboy

This is the second most damaging collapse we have had after Emery’s.

The reality is that after this season, allowing spurs to get top 4, Manchester United to get a new manager, and Newcastle to enter the transfer market in a huge way, getting top 4 will be exponentially harder. In fact, it will not be done by our current manager.

Arteta has to a degree got what he can out of a decimated squad, but let us not forget, he helped to decimated the squad he has currently.

The fact in 2022, we are still trotting out Xhaka and Elneny in midfield is absolutely laughable (if not to us, then to our rivals), and it is beyond me that a former midfielder turned manager, can neglect that area of the pitch so badly.

To see Guimareas yesterday brought home the folly of our transfer windows. The midfield is still the bedrock of any serious team and we have chronically neglected it. Seeing the season Saliba has had, and the money spent on white compounds the issue. That money should have gone in the middle of the park.

It is not hindsight, myself and a lot of others made these observations before the start of this season, and now here we are.

I really would let Arteta go right now and bring in Potter. We have not played a consistent style now for years, you have to go all the way back to Wenger for that, and Wenger was way past it at the end. Potter has managed to get Brighton playing better football than us with half the talent. Would Brighton have looked so abject against Spurs and then Newcastle?

The reality is the Arteta is going nowhere for now, I believe next season is his last, but all that means for us is wasted time.

Anzac

Burnwinter wrote:
Anzac wrote:
Sorry but when push came to shove they kept hold of the money in favour of reducing our operating costs.
We didn't sign anyone in Jan not for want of trying, let alone finishing the rebuild in either the Midfield or the Attack, or to have a spine that is fit for purpose.

Anzac, your whole post is off base (they've spent millions and millions), but even in January they pushed the boat out for Vlahovic, he just never had any intention of coming.

Either way, from an investment standpoint it's necessary for us to be Champions League incumbents. The main next opportunity for a step change in club valuation is entry to a European super league. So if they want to make money out of the club longer term, they need to spend up.

The alternative is starting to refine an exit strategy—not an impossible outcome as I hardly think they're more committed to Arsenal than they are to their billions, but it doesn't look like it's the current plan.

I strongly expect they'll be back in the market with £100m to spend this summer, although the kicker may well be at least one player we love going on the shelf.

I don't disagree that we have spent heavily, but I do question their willingness to continue to do so.

I don't think UCL is the objective of the spending so much as UEFA qualification, because IMO our spending this season does not reflect UCL as being the objective because we didn't finish the rebuild in order to achieve that outcome, despite having 2 opportunities to do so. IMO the objective for this season was intended to achieve UEFA qualification so as to retain our UEFA ranking in regards to the proposed changes to the UCL. Whilst I realise those criteria have been modified/softened during the season, as I understand it it no longer gives as much weight to UCL participation as opposed to participation in UEFA comps.

I still think a Super League scenario is on the cards either directly as a break-away competition or via UEFA or even FIFA = the question is more about who will be the controlling body rather than about the competition.

As much as I do not expect them to continue to spend I also do not think they are looking to sell, but I think the price for CFC may have an impact on their thinking in terms of opportunity and more so the price they can expect to receive, as I do not expect AFC to fetch the same price as CFC as they have been the more successful club in the EPL Era.

Burnwinter

Klaus wrote:
You're assuming that share prices follow on-pitch success though, but they do not.

I absolutely am not contending there's a direct relationship. My thinking has always been that share prices follow predictable revenue (and profit). Entry to a European super league would mean access to an unparalleled streaming and TV rights package bonanza.

Every club that gets in that hellmouth when it opens will become substantially richer, that's all. It is related to on-field success but not incrementally, discontinuously. A step change.

Anzac

jones wrote:
Where was this suggestion, football365? Both Locatelli and Vlahovic have very clearly had their hearts set on Juve from day one, we had 0% chance to sign them at any point. Sassuolo even preferred to sell Locatelli to us because we offered more but he vetoed the move. We also signed players after Locatelli moved to Juventus.

How do you figure these "couldn't come up with the money" reports to be true? Someone at the club, probably Edu starts enquiring about a player he's interested in, he signals he's willing to meet their asking price and then when he's supposed to make a binding offer he goes to ask Kroenke if he can have the money and Kroenke says no? I think our club is run by clowns but even I don't think this is realistic.

Yes we did but not in his position or role.

And that is reportedly exactly what happened regarding the deal for Melo.

Gazza M

the extreme neglect of midfield is egregious. that 50m spent on a centre half was the mother of all red flags that the people setting the agenda were clueless

jones

ohboy!!! wrote:
This is the second most damaging collapse we have had after Emery’s.

Emery made a poor call resting players in the league at a point he shouldn't have but this collapse is way worse, not even close. That season we played 15 matches more than this season, more than most teams we competed against too, suffered more injuries etc, this season we've had a clear run at just the league and we fucked it up by putting out possibly the most anaemic performance all season.

Really doesn't matter if you look at it in the cold light of day, whether we get abused in the CL or go out to weaker teams in the EL much of a muchness, the end result is the same we will need another 200m to improve the squad to the necessary level and Arteta will still be in charge.

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