Liverpool v Arsenal | Sat, 17:30: Page 20 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Liverpool v Arsenal | Sat, 17:30

Qwiss

Ricky1985 wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that it was even in the first 30 minutes.

Only on the scoresheet. I looked it up and they had 68% possession for the first 30 minutes. Shots they were ahead 7-2. That breaks down to 2 on target, 2 off target and 3 blocked. Ours was 2 blocked. They had 3 corners to our zero, they'd 89% pass competition to our 78%. 4 key passes to 2. 309 touches to 171.
They were much better than us in the first half hour but we managed to hold them off. Thats it. Pretending we did more than that is lying to yourself.

Ricky1985

Qwiss! wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that it was even in the first 30 minutes.

Only on the scoresheet. I looked it up and they had 68% possession for the first 30 minutes. Shots they were ahead 7-2. That breaks down to 2 on target, 2 off target and 3 blocked. Ours was 2 blocked. They had 3 corners to our zero, they'd 89% pass competition to our 78%. 4 key passes to 2. 309 touches to 171.
They were much better than us in the first half hour but we managed to hold them off. Thats it. Pretending we did more than that is lying to yourself.

I don't have access to the stats breakdown, but I did watch it again cold and objectively, and for the first half an hour (29 minutes if I'm being precise) they created nothing of note, and we categorically had all those situations I listed in the post above.

It was a cagey tactical affair and we were giving as good as we got. It broke down a little for around 5 minutes leading up to their goal, and then we were on top for the remainder of the half - 7 minutes or so.

It's easily the best half of football I've seen us put together with the scores level at Anfield in years.

AAStyle

What's the merit of playing decently 30 minutes if afterwards the other team is going to spank us. I mean, this is the improvement we are going to celebrate after almost 2 years under Arteta?

Burnwinter

AAStyle- wrote:
What's the merit of playing decently 30 minutes if afterwards the other team is going to spank us. I mean, this is the improvement we are going to celebrate after almost 2 years under Arteta?

The "other team" were the best staffed, drilled and managed Liverpool side since the 80s, playing at Anfield. It was broadly acknowledged to be a near inevitable loss from the outset and an exercise in pride and damage control.

On the other hand, Arteta's influence wasn't helpful for that exercise. We were inflexibly set up, psychologically brittle, out-thought, creatively bereft and in the end humiliated on the day. Failure by any account.

AAStyle

At 2-0 a top tier coach would have taken actual measures to apply damage control. What did Arteta do?

I have said previously that I don't blame Arteta for losing, but for the spanking.

Burnwinter

We agree, if you read my post. I know it feels weird amigo, enjoy it.

AAStyle

Hahaha my point is that Ricky's view (and the Athletic's one, which is actually embarrasing) is too optimistic. There is nothing to rescue here, a spanking is a spanking. Second half was awful and humiliating, this itself shall erase any attempt to find positive things from that match.

Ricky1985

I'm not arguing the result and late collapse wasn't piss poor (I haven't read the piece in the Athletic), but it's a question of whether there were positives to take from the defeat that point toward reasons to be optimistic that we are moving in the right direction. As I have pointed out, I think there were a number of them, and the result and collapse do not negate those positives.

AAStyle

Fair enough. It is reasonable although I disagree.

Big Willie

goon wrote:
Good point, I wonder if it does just largely boil down to immaturity, men against boys etc. Feels like too much of an easy get out for Arteta but having the youngest team in the league has to have some consequences.

There isn’t really anything extraordinary about this game when all is said and done, but it did highlight areas we really need to improve on. Liverpool were not really dominant - see the game at Anfield last season to compare - but that they found it relatively easy to nullify us and just picked us off when we made mistakes and with a bit of quality is definitely disconcerting.

I keep seeing this mentioned on the focums to a point where it is now a fact. Do we really have the youngest team in the league, and if so, is it that far off the others agewise? And how are these other young teams doing? I can't be arsed looking up the stats but to go from one of the oldest to one of the youngest just cuz we bought Lokonga, White, Ramsdale and Tavares doesn't add up.

Edit: Just looked it up. Turns out we are. Ignore everything I just said.

Ricky1985

The average age of the back 4 + GK on Saturday was 22.6. That's madness, and weirdly, considering we conceded 4 goals, I think all 5 of them showed they are or will get to the needed level.

Burnwinter

Not so sure Tavares did, crikey ... he's an interesting player but he's been showing plenty of damaging inconsistency on this run of appearances, despite his qualities.

jones

Burnwinter wrote:
Not so sure Tavares did, crikey ... he's an interesting player but he's been showing plenty of damaging inconsistency on this run of appearances, despite his qualities.

Tavares has like 30 games of top flight experience, probably even less. He's an interesting player is the best description of him at this point, the inconsistency is to be expected and can't be ironed out after three months at his new club and a couple of games.

jones

Big Willie wrote:
goon wrote:
Good point, I wonder if it does just largely boil down to immaturity, men against boys etc. Feels like too much of an easy get out for Arteta but having the youngest team in the league has to have some consequences.

There isn’t really anything extraordinary about this game when all is said and done, but it did highlight areas we really need to improve on. Liverpool were not really dominant - see the game at Anfield last season to compare - but that they found it relatively easy to nullify us and just picked us off when we made mistakes and with a bit of quality is definitely disconcerting.

I keep seeing this mentioned on the focums to a point where it is now a fact. Do we really have the youngest team in the league, and if so, is it that far off the others agewise? And how are these other young teams doing? I can't be arsed looking up the stats but to go from one of the oldest to one of the youngest just cuz we bought Lokonga, White, Ramsdale and Tavares doesn't add up.

Edit: Just looked it up. Turns out we are. Ignore everything I just said.

I think there are just five teams in Europe's top five leagues with a younger average age than us, Monaco being the youngest if you exclude RB Salzburg who are basically a ridiculously strong U21 outfit at this point.

awooga83

Agree with the points Qwiss raised. They may not have scored in that 30 minute spell but as the stats demonstrate they were totally in control of the match and we were resisting them as best we could but if a team has that much control against you aren't dealing with them and you are at risk of either them upping their game and breaking through or more likely your aren't able to keep that defensive level over the full 90 minutes. We have not been able to go toe to toe with these teams and get brushed aside very easily so I've seen no evidence of an improvement in these type of games under Arteta. It's why I feel under him it's Ole-esque. I don't see that he can take us in a serious way into that top tier we should be looking to aim for ultimately.

We still play a game of trying to fill scale defend and then nick a goal and that requires such high precision and can easily not work and there is no margin for error in it. If your not right on it your likely to run aground.

Mirth

jones wrote:
Burnwinter wrote:
Not so sure Tavares did, crikey ... he's an interesting player but he's been showing plenty of damaging inconsistency on this run of appearances, despite his qualities.

Tavares has like 30 games of top flight experience, probably even less. He's an interesting player is the best description of him at this point, the inconsistency is to be expected and can't be ironed out after three months at his new club and a couple of games.

Tavares has a lot to learn but his physical and technical attributes combined make him too tempting to not persist with for a season or two.

Captain

Think the game swung on them expecting Tomiyasu to mark Mane, but actually it was White who did a number on him for the first 25ish minutes. Once Liverpool realised and adjusted, the game was done.

We were never in it at any point from there.

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