CL/EL 21/22: Page 23 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

CL/EL 21/22

HomeSteak

goon wrote:
Hope Poch gets the sack, think I’d rather him at a United than Ten Haag.

Yep, that would be a good move for us I think. Also, how funny would it be for Poch to go to PSG, a place where you automatically win the league only for him to get sacked and end up with 0 league titles to his name 😆 . Can take the man out of Spurs...

Ricky1985

jones wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
He's a huge talent, agreed, but I'm not sure I would say it's that inpressive for him to be one of the best in the team. There's really not much going on for Madrid now. They'll get smacked around by Liverpool, City, Bayern.

And he really does have a very poor understanding of what's going on around him. He's all explosion and speed. Reminds me a lot of Kingsley Coman.

You write some dodgy stuff with full chest sometimes it's amazing 😆 he's probably the best winger in Europe right now, not even U21 but just any winger. Salah is outperforming him but he's not really a winger. Your assessment was true for last season but since Ancelotti took over he's exploded, his dribbling was always world class now he's added end product, has more goals and assists each than Odegaard and Saka combined for comparison.

I'd be amazed if any of those teams smacked Madrid around. Liverpool got kicked out of the CL by them just last season.

We'll see. Vinicius is the kind of winger I don't like (if I'm right about his end product over the long-term and/or when facing elite opposition).

He lacks awareness. Constantly making bad decisions. He gets goals and assists because he so fast and explosive. Not sure that'll translate over the longer term or when he's a marked man at the top level.

Ricky1985

jones wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
And if PSG weren't the team they faced today you'd probably include them in the group of teams they'd be smacked around by.

Not having a go at you Ricky but this is probably true for most pundits who slam PSG today. They were clearly better for 3/4th of the tie than Madrid and lost due to individual errors, CL pedigree is a thing sure but PSG have kicked Bayern Barcelona or Chelsea out in recent seasons and got to the final and semi final in the last two years, not like they're complete novices in the competition. Knockout tourneys are just dumb luck often enough.

PSG also have a non-elite coach and are a tremendously lazy team. Incredible individuals aside, and even then they're sorely lacking in great defensive players, they're not a great team. They're just not.

Though I do agree knockout football has a large element of luck to it. Maybe it's Real Madrid collapsing if the second leg is instead at Parc de Princes? They're not a great team either and have fewer elite individual players.

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
mentalvortex wrote:
Regret to say this but Wenger signed the wrong player from that Dinamo Zagreb Side.

Wenger did say Modric really surprised him. He was convinced he was too lightweight to succeed in football which is why he rejected him for Arsenal those days

TBF to Wenger Modric was absolutely too lightweight when he first got to Spurs, took him a season to sort it out but when he did he was incredible.

jones

Ricky1985 wrote:
jones wrote:
Not having a go at you Ricky but this is probably true for most pundits who slam PSG today. They were clearly better for 3/4th of the tie than Madrid and lost due to individual errors, CL pedigree is a thing sure but PSG have kicked Bayern Barcelona or Chelsea out in recent seasons and got to the final and semi final in the last two years, not like they're complete novices in the competition. Knockout tourneys are just dumb luck often enough.

PSG also have a non-elite coach and are a tremendously lazy team. Incredible individuals aside, and even then they're sorely lacking in great defensive players, they're not a great team. They're just not.

Though I do agree knockout football has a large element of luck to it. Maybe it's Real Madrid collapsing if the second leg is instead at Parc de Princes? They're not a great team either and have fewer elite individual players.

If PSG and Madrid aren't great teams then there are none in the world.

Ricky1985

It's all relative in a historical sense. They're not great teams by the measure of Madrid's former teams. They're very good, with very good players, but City and Liverpool will/would beat them both, and they themselves are not great teams from the same historical perspective, imo.

QuincyAbeyie

Ricky1985 wrote:
They're very good, with very good players, but City and Liverpool will/would beat them both

Being favorites =/= will/would beat them. If not then City wouldn't have gone out to Chelsea, Tottenham, Lyon, Liverpool (when Liverpool came fourth while City walked the league) and Monaco the past five seasons.

jones

Madrid aren't as good as they were in recent years but not by as much as most seem to believe, they have a better defence than they had before, their midfield has aged but is still brilliant on its day and Benzema is probably the best player in the world this season.

Again Liverpool were kicked out of the CL by Madrid last season, also didn't blow PSG away two years before. City are the best team in the world on account of their consistency but they can definitely be gotten at by any of the other teams mentioned

Ricky1985

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
They're very good, with very good players, but City and Liverpool will/would beat them both

Being favorites =/= will/would beat them. If not then City wouldn't have gone out to Chelsea, Tottenham, Lyon, Liverpool (when Liverpool came fourth while City walked the league) and Monaco the past five seasons.

City and Liverpool are much better teams, but as Jones and I agreed on earlier, cup competitions are a bit of a lottery.

Ricky1985

jones wrote:
Madrid aren't as good as they were in recent years but not by as much as most seem to believe, they have a better defence than they had before, their midfield has aged but is still brilliant on its day and Benzema is probably the best player in the world this season.

Again Liverpool were kicked out of the CL by Madrid last season, also didn't blow PSG away two years before. City are the best team in the world on account of their consistency but they can definitely be gotten at by any of the other teams mentioned

Madrid in their pomp had Ramos, Marcelo, peak not past it, Casemeiro, Kroos and Modric, and Cristiano Ronaldo. There's just no comparison. These were some of the best players I've ever seen.

MistaT

Ricky, I think you may need to watch more Real Madrid to get a better read on Vinicius.

Your criticism held true for him in past years, but he's on another level this year. His connection with Benzema is fantastic, and he's become far more aware of his options/surroundings around the box. He may shy away from team based build up play earlier in moves, but that's more so because he's confident in his athleticism enabling him to break forward.

Ricky1985

I am going on very, very limited viewing this season, so you may be right.

Pepe LeFrits

This Atletico side doesn't look great

Pepe LeFrits

Nice move there though

Pepe LeFrits

I take it back. Great goal

Sicario

Ffs need Utd to fucking show up here

lorddulaarsenal

Why do you?

Sicario

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Why do you?

Will make a big difference to our top 4 chances mate (if they go through).

KurtEisner

It's two more games. Much rather they lose and Ronaldo screams at someone in the dressing room, instead of them building up some form and confidence.

Pepe LeFrits

Bruno is such a whiner

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