Loan Watch 21/22: Page 13 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Loan Watch 21/22

Burnwinter

It's not a complex point or rocket science. Yes, there's been some kind of problem and it looks worse because Saliba's been performing well in Ligue 1. But he's under contract for ages and the concern about his situation is overstated and based on hand-wringing conjecture about unknown, poorly understood variables that will change prior to any decisive moment in his case. What motivates it? A desire to characterise this as a terrible mistake by Arsenal's leadership. But in fact, both White and Saliba should have transfer value so that concern is also mitigated.

jones

He has two more years on his contract at the end of this season, talk about "overstated".

Not sure what you're criticising here. Nobody cares about his transfer value people want to see him at Arsenal. There's little to be understood poorly about Arteta's repeated refusal to talk his player up like literally any other manager does about their assets, he didn't give him a chance to prove himself at the club after the player said he wanted to succeed here last summer, he gave his shirt number to a new player, he signed two young central defenders in consecutive summers sending him out on loan every time despite him performing every time he got a shot at two (now three) clubs. That's a whole lot more to be concerned about than anything that could be characterised as concern mitigated.

Burnwinter

jones wrote:
He has two more years on his contract at the end of this season, talk about "overstated".

Sums it up really. He's got about 33 months on his contract. Why not say "He's got one more year on his contract at the end of next season"? Sounds more dramatic that way.

Saliba's a 20 year old starlet securely contracted to Arsenal playing on loan and doing well.

We want quality young players we spent money on. Who might soon compete in our first team squad in positions where we have cover. We want them sent on loan. At decent clubs. Doing well and gaining experience. We want this to be the case. We advocate regularly for this in the abstract—this is what it looks like in reality. Gossip and sniping aside aside the bare bones of this situation could be a model for the way we invest in other positions.

So yeah it's overstated. I hope we've got a couple more Salibas next season, provided it doesn't prevent us from strengthening and balancing the squad we've got on hand.

jones

Burnwinter wrote:
jones wrote:
He has two more years on his contract at the end of this season, talk about "overstated".

Sums it up really. He's got about 33 months on his contract. Why not say "He's got one more year on his contract at the end of next season"? Sounds more dramatic that way.

Because he's currently out on loan and we won't be able to do anything with him until he returns next summer. Isn't that obvious?

We want quality young players we spent money on. Who might soon compete in our first team squad in positions where we have cover. We want them sent on loan. At decent clubs. Doing well and gaining experience. We want this to be the case. We advocate regularly for this in the abstract—this is what it looks like in reality. Gossip and sniping aside aside the bare bones of this situation could be a model for the way we invest in other positions.

Don't you think it's a bit telling that you have to abstract from the situation at hand to make your case? Nobody would disagree with you were we talking about Nketiah or Balogun who are currently wasting away on the bench. Nobody is unhappy that Nelson with all his talent is out on loan because he'd have zero minutes for us right now. Unless one of our two central defenders leaves for some reason next summer there's little chance of Saliba coming back knowing what treatment he can expect from a manager who talks about him like some unwanted stepchild. It's the long and short of it and really, everyone can see how dodgy and stiff Arteta's attitude towards him are, it's only you who tries to portray everyone as having an agenda or desire to make the club look bad.

Coombs

All of that us utter nonsense, jones. It's not a soap opera.

QuincyAbeyie

It's definitely a good idea to re-think when your conclusion involves Ricky in some group of people with a desire to characterize something as a terrible mistake by Arsenal's leadership. 😆 Not mecessarily re-think that you feel the Saliba situation is ideal - that's fair enough even though I obviously disagree. The part where you're stating why people disagree with you though, that's another story.

Burnwinter

jones wrote:
Don't you think it's a bit telling that you have to abstract from the situation at hand to make your case?

No, frankly I think it's all this "unwanted stepchild" stuff that's telling. Saliba's under contract, uninjured and doing well for Marseille, the rest of the commentary about it is pissing into the wind—that's my point.

jones

Right because we didn't see the manager banish Guendouzi for talking back.

No point in taking this any further anyway

Edit was in response to Coombs but it fits your post just as well Burns.

Gazza M

seeing how saliba is currently performing, we could've saved 50m and just developed him inside the club. he's raw in some ways, but all things considered (price tag, talent, the fact that 50m could've been spent elsewhere etc) I think it wouldve been more efficient to take a punt on developing him in house. I don't think that's an insane thought to have for a club in our position, where every major purchase has a bearing on the recruitment strategy as a whole.

and that doesn't automatically mean I think Ben White is rubbish either, before anyone starts on that

Burnwinter

I don't disagree with those points at all Gaz. I just don't see the situation as a huge concern.

Regarding the gossip, when an ambitious 20 year old gets pissed at his club it's not necessarily all the club's fault. Or the manager's fault. We know both Douzi and Saliba are uppity characters from stuff they've posted on social media etc. Something like that's not a fatal situation or evidence of terrible mismanagement of the squad. If Saliba's temper is such that he doesn't want to progress back to a bigger club than Marseille he's not for us anyway.

Worst impact is that we've got £50m outlaid on White that we could've allocated to a midfield signing. The rest isn't a big deal. I'd consider renewing Xhaka's contract to be a bigger deal and a worse mistake.

Gazza M

the xhaka renewal is a flow on effect from not signing a senior midfielder, which to me is a flow on effect from spending the 50m on a CB. these moves don't happen in a vacuum, they're all linked together

anway we seem to be in decent nick. if the team is able push through an injury to partey, or him being off the boil due to afcon (assuming it goes ahead) then fair fucks to arteta.

Coombs

Gazza M wrote:
the xhaka renewal is a flow on effect from not signing a senior midfielder, which to me is a flow on effect from spending the 50m on a CB. these moves don't happen in a vacuum, they're all linked together

There's nothing to suggest this is the case. The evidence does suggest that the Xhaka deal was a Xhaka issue, and that it really wasn't connected to other deals at all. Roma didn't meet our valuation so we renewed his contract and dropped our pursuit of other CMs. No suggestion whatsoever that the White deal had any meaningful impact.

flobaba

Ricky1985 wrote:
[Twitter]

I saw Arteta's quote re Saliba and wanted to see what he said on video. And I find this odd.

I have no real problem with the kid going out on loan this season if the idea is to maximise his minutes, even if I wouldn't have made that decision myself, but Arteta can't even bring himself to look pleased or praise Saliba's performance against PSG when he's asked about it. To me, he looks irritated and annoyed by the questioning. Surely Arteta should be buzzing about it and licking his lips about the possibility of having him back next season? Instead he ends by saying "we'll sit down in the summer and make a decision about the next step".

No, Mikel, you'll bring him back into the squad and you'll play him over the likes of Chambers, Mari and Holding (Holdinho is a half decent player though btw!)

I will be severely unimpressed if we lose the kid because of some clash between him and Arteta. I really, really hope that's not the case. Anyone with eyes can see the huge potential he has.

Just got around to this.

Comparing that video with the response he had when asked about Saka, Ramsdale, Gabriel/White, in the post Leicester win q n a, and I think you get the sense that it’s personal with Saliba.

It’s just quite unusual not to be a bit more effusive with your praise of his impact at Marseille if he was someone you are truly happy to bring back here.

jones

There's absolutely nothing whatsoever to suggest anything personal there flobs. Everything points to the direction that Arteta loves Saliba like his own son, anyone claiming else watches too many soap operas.

Ray

Knew this was going to happen the minute Arteta said he was going to give Saliba a chance in preseason, then loaned him out before pre season started.

At the end of the day one of Gabriel/White/Saliba will leave next season, as they aren’t going to sit around on the bench at this stage of their careers, with CB being an area that needs consistency. All signs point to Saliba leaving, which makes signing White more expensive than the 50m Arsenal paid for him. Bizarre management of events, unless Arteta get sacked first.

Clrnc

jones wrote:
There's absolutely nothing whatsoever to suggest anything personal there flobs. Everything points to the direction that Arteta loves Saliba like his own son, anyone claiming else watches too many soap operas.

Yeah absolutely no indication that this is happening. Nothing to suggest this is the case. Everything is unlinked at Arsenal.

FEBravo

Think it's quite clear what happened. Saliba refused to provide his nudes to Arteta.

Coombs

jones wrote:
There's absolutely nothing whatsoever to suggest anything personal there flobs. Everything points to the direction that Arteta loves Saliba like his own son, anyone claiming else watches too many soap operas.

I'm a bit confused as to why you suddenly seem so reasonable.

QuincyAbeyie

I agree with Coombs that if you detract pretty much everything from the situation there's nothing left to suggest that.

Mirth

Doesn't take much analysis to say that the club have given Saliba a raw deal.

Who and why is open to debate but everything that's happened thus far is pretty poor.

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