Joe Willock: Page 5 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Joe Willock

Captain

Qwiss! wrote:
Theo Walcott thought he was a 9.

Not really analogous to be fair. Theo said that was his best position/where he wanted to play, Maddison was talking about where he actually played.

If Maddison comes though, forget that nonsense. He needs to come and be the dynamic, unshackled, front-foot player that this squad demands

QuincyAbeyie

Ricky1985 wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
What he says himself about where he's playing trumps what you literally see on the field when he's playing? Yeah okay, not going to continue that.

I'm not sure I believe that you watch most of Leicester's game and pay close attention to Maddison's position on the pitch during said games.

And even if you do, the player himself is adamant about it: he says he's a centre midfield, specifically that he is an 8 and not a 10, and that barring one game, he excuslively played that role last season.

It's very clear and not really up for debate.

And if he prefers that role, then it follows that he would likely prefer to play that role at any club he signed for.

Why would it be necessary to watch most of Leicester's games, in case if I only watch some of them those could just happen to be the few times where he plays like a 10 and the rest he plays as an 8?

Ricky1985

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Why would it be necessary to watch most of Leicester's games, in case if I only watch some of them those could just happen to be the few times where he plays like a 10 and the rest he plays as an 8?

I'm struggling to understand your wording there, but if you are contradicting the very clear statement of the player himself, then what are you basing it on if not your own observations?

Ricky1985

Qwiss! wrote:
Theo Walcott thought he was a 9.

Maybe Maddison is best as a 10 and not an 8, I didn't see enough of him last season to say for sure, but it's a fact (unless he's a liar) that he played as an 8 last season for Leicester. That's the point.

QuincyAbeyie

They are based on own observations, like I said. I'm asking why it would be necessary to watch most of Leicester's games and not watch some and conclude from that. The way I see it if I watch 10 Leicester games and he plays as a 10 every time the chance of me just being unlucky and catching the few games he didn't play as a central midfielders are incredibly slim. Not sure why this means I'm not basing it on my own observations.

Ray

Playing as an ‘8’ with Ndidi and Tielemans behind you is a lot different from playing as an 8 with Partey and ESR alongside you.

Ricky1985

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
They are based on own observations, like I said. I'm asking why it would be necessary to watch most of Leicester's games and not watch some and conclude from that. The way I see it if I watch 10 Leicester games and he plays as a 10 every time the chance of me just being unlucky and catching the few games he didn't play as a central midfielders are incredibly slim. Not sure why this means I'm not basing it on my own observations.

Maybe you just weren't playing close attention or confirmation bias was at work because you assume Maddison is a 10?

Either way, your impression was wrong. He played as an 8 and not a 10.

I'm not trying to be a dick btw. It's just the specifics are important to the discussion of where he might play if we sign him.

QuincyAbeyie

Maybe you just think he's an 8 because of confirmation bias from what he said?

Anyway, he's a very good player and will strenghten us if we sign him, but those who think he'll take up Xhaka's place alongside Partey rather than play in the front four ala ESR are kidding themselves imo. Just like he wouldn't play alongside Ndidi in a pairing.

Ricky1985

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Maybe you just think he's an 8 because of confirmation bias from what he said?

That's ridiculous! 😆

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Anyway, he's a very good player and will strenghten us if we sign him, but those who think he'll take up Xhaka's place alongside Partey rather than play in the front four ala ESR are kidding themselves imo. Just like he wouldn't play alongside Ndidi in a pairing.

After all those Leicester games you've meticulously observed, are you forgetting Youri Tielemans?! 😆

Maddison didn't play in a pairing with Ndidi, he played in a trio with both Ndidi and Tielemans. And the Belgium is pretty damn slow and weak, and not at all skilled defensively. A three of Tielmans, Maddison and Ndidi, would not be altogether different in practice to a Smith Rowe, Maddison and Partey midfield three.

QuincyAbeyie

If I'm saying that he'll play in front of two midfielders here just like he played in front of two midfielders there, I don’t see how that's forgetting Tielemans since he is one of the two he played in front of? You're not being a dick, but you're being weird right now. Trying to arrest me/trying to bust me in never watching Leicester when the fact is that I simply disagree with you. If a midfielder literally cant play as a CM in our 4-2-3-1 formation then he's an attacking midfielder.

Qwiss

Ray wrote:
Playing as an ‘8’ with Ndidi and Tielemans behind you is a lot different from playing as an 8 with Partey and ESR alongside you.

Thats the thing, he plays well ahead of those 2, I don't consider that an 8 and certainly not someone who's going to be able to play along side Partey with ESR ahead of him.

jones

Tielemans might be not very fast but he's relatively disciplined in his positioning. I've never seen Maddison play in CM, might be a coincidence but the ten or so Leicester games I've watched last season and in all of the highlights I've seen he was clearly positioned ahead of Ndidi and Tielemans. For what it's worth transfermarkt listed him bar one game as playing always ahead of either, quick research confirms it no one except himself considers him an 8. Forget about Theo remember Ox who thought he was a CM or worse still your pet peeve AMN who thought he was born a CM.

Clrnc

I think he is an 8, but his 8 definition is different.

KDB plays as an 8 too in City FWIW, but you will never consider him as a CM

Qwiss

I'd say KDB regularly plays as the kind of 8 I'm talking about. You'd often see Silva in the past or Foden now play in the middle ahead of him. Thats not where Maddison operates.

Captain

It was a throwaway comment - he basically said he's not a pure 10, which he hasn't been under Rodgers. It's neither here nor there.

If he comes Arsenal, we want him on the ball doing damage and not chasing the oppositions wing back 35 yards to barely make an interception/tackle.

Anzac

The difference in his eyes may be about where he starts from on the field or looks to get on the ball (middle 3rd) as opposed a #10 (attacking 3rd).

goon

There’s other ways to compensate for not having two disciplined centre mids behind you, such as telling your right back not to bomb forward. We finished to Spurs game with Cedric essentially tucking in and playing as a 3rd CB. In the past we’ve seen our RB operate as a CM when we’re on the ball.

FWIW I think it’s far more likely that ESR just shifts to the left, but I’d like to see this happen, even more so if we sing someone more conservative like Odegaard.

Gazza M

Ricky1985 wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Maybe you just think he's an 8 because of confirmation bias from what he said?

That's ridiculous! 😆

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Anyway, he's a very good player and will strenghten us if we sign him, but those who think he'll take up Xhaka's place alongside Partey rather than play in the front four ala ESR are kidding themselves imo. Just like he wouldn't play alongside Ndidi in a pairing.

After all those Leicester games you've meticulously observed, are you forgetting Youri Tielemans?! 😆

Maddison didn't play in a pairing with Ndidi, he played in a trio with both Ndidi and Tielemans. And the Belgium is pretty damn slow and weak, and not at all skilled defensively. A three of Tielmans, Maddison and Ndidi, would not be altogether different in practice to a Smith Rowe, Maddison and Partey midfield three.

there's a reason maddison is considered sellable, and there's a reason they're shifting to soumare, ndidi, and only one of tielemans/maddison. the combo you've mentioned doesn't work over the duration of a premier league season

Ray

If we sign Maddison it will be something like this.

--------Partey----Xhaka
Saka--------Maddison---------ESR

Anzac

Ray wrote:
If we sign Maddison it will be something like this.

--------Partey----Xhaka
Saka--------Maddison---------ESR

Alternatively using the same players

Partey - Maddison - Xhaka
Saka -----------------ESR

--------Partey -----Xhaka
--------------Maddison
Saka-----------------------ESR

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