Arsenal Set To Be Subject Of Amazon’s Next ‘All Or Nothing’ Doc: Page 13 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal Set To Be Subject Of Amazon’s Next ‘All Or Nothing’ Doc

invisibleman18

"The club has got a tradition."
Not wanting to take the thread off topic, but interesting to see how that "tradition" views other situations.

AAStyle

Arteta made his final decision because he looked into Aubameyang’s eyes and felt the “trust” was not there between them

Who would have thought

Asterix

I would hope Arteta did keep information on why he wanted him out. Any good boss would have evidence to back up a decision like that. it certainly shouldn't be done on a whim.

Whether it was a good decision or not is a completely different matter. I think most of us are with Edu and Vinai - keep the guy and make it work until the end of the season.

I guess Arteta's view is that if you're not on board, then get off straight away. It was a gamble that ultimately fell just short. I reckon if you told Arteta the outcome he would still have made the decision because for him the group is the most important. he wants "'his guys" and he felt Auba wasn't in that category any more. I can understand, and even respect that. Just wish he could have made it work for the back half of last season.

Big Willie

Haven't watched any of this so far but have to say I feel a little bad and have a bit more respect for Xhaka following those quotes. He was petulant during that Palace game but he deserves respect for pushing on keeping his mouth shut (last summer Roma/Mourinho aside) and trying his best all the time, something which I think Arteta puts a lot of emphasis on.

He's not good enough overall and his inability to prevent his moments of madness or brain farts when we least need it means we should have replaced him years ago, but I can kind of see why so many managers still persist with him.

Gazza M

as a teammate I would've had a gut full of his hot headed buffoonery by now, but there's been so much turnover in the squad, and the majority are so young, and he has so much of the managers backing, that there's noone left in the club who would call out his bs

anyway, we're on the upswing of the 6th or 7th xhaka boom-bust cycle. we'll see how much love there is left when his next costly balls up happens

awooga83

The Liverpool stuff was pretty awful. Reading that Auba stuff just looks really pretty because streets just didn't get in with him. All through last season the benefit of the doubt speculation was clearly there was some other big thing that we didn't know about add it couldn't just be that. But now it looks like he just didn't really like his character and went about finding the reasons to get rid of him but it doesn't seem he applies these rules universally because of you bothered to keep a dossier on everyone I'm sure you would find issues.

goon

If you ask someone not to do something and they do it multiple times, the situation will always come to a head. The fact that it's something as simple and innocuous as being late on multiple occasions actually makes it worse because it's pretty easy to be on time. Generally speaking there's nothing wrong with disliking someone's character too if you think things like being late are a symptom of it.

The thing about 'well if he applied it consistently he'd ban Xhaka for getting a red card or banish Cedric for being rubbish at football' is a false equivalence. We have no idea about who else does or does not follow the rules, how they're treated or what the consequences are.

4th episode was good, more insight that I thought we'd get. I'd have like to have seen more player reaction. Based on the convo between Holding and Elneny, the reaction in the changing room and the results in games it didn't seem to cause too much of a shockwave.

jones

goon wrote:
If you ask someone not to do something and they do it multiple times, the situation will always come to a head. The fact that it's something as simple and innocuous as being late on multiple occasions actually makes it worse because it's pretty easy to be on time. Generally speaking there's nothing wrong with disliking someone's character too if you think things like being late are a symptom of it.

The thing about 'well if he applied it consistently he'd ban Xhaka for getting a red card or banish Cedric for being rubbish at football' is a false equivalence. We have no idea about who else does or does not follow the rules, how they're treated or what the consequences are.

I agree generally it's a false equivalence but that's missing the point. Arteta shouldn't get to define his own rules, no manager anywhere should the maxim always has to be everyone does their best to win as many football matches as possible. If that means you indulge a player being late on time at times then that's what you do, that's what a much better manager than Arteta in Tuchel did in the past and he's a bigger disciplinarian than him too. Just being strict so everyone sees there are rules for everyone doesn't help you winning football matches.

Give him a stern talking to in private, fine him 100k for every ten minutes he's late etc but what's a dossier supposed to help with other than have evidence to escalate it to the next level? Auba is by far the best striker we've had, only way you get rid of him is if you're positive you're getting in someone who's as good or know how to raise the goalscoring level from the rest of the team in his absence. We've scored 61 goals in the league 5 of which vs Everton on pointless match day 38.

Gurgen

If only Arteta had built up a dossier against Partey as well. But I guess what he did isn’t as bad as being late. How did we manage to turn into the most vile club in a league that includes Chelsea and City?

goon

Agree there has to be flexibility but I'm pretty sure there is. He was given a massive contract when he was at the top of his game despite that side of him not being unknown at the time.

Auba hadn't really been performing for a long time, our issues with scoring goals were there and perhaps more pronounced in the 18 months prior to his suspension. I'm convinced if he was still banging them in the consequences for breaching those non-negotiables would have been flexed or at least differed to the end of the season. But if someone is frustrating you on the pitch to the point where you drop them and also continue to flout whatever rules you've set out, then it makes it a lot easier to bring the relationship to an abrupt end.

HomeSteak

So Auba was late a bunch of times? I agree with Arteta, he needs to be in line with the team, sell him. But do it in the summer....what was the point of that? The guy scored 11 goals for Barca(only Benzema scored more in La liga in the same period, 12). To sell him without a replacement is stupid, and probably cost us a CL spot. I remember Wenger dealing with Bendtner being a dick and calling him a wanker, beacuse we needed him. The team comes first, then his ego. Same with Harry Redknapp and Merson, if you guys remember the story. Of course, Auba is not what he used to be, but 5-10 goals from him from December to May...you never know.

Anyway, the documentary is pushing very hard for Xhaka to come out of it looking good, feels like he gets time in every episode, while other players don't even get a second. Also, Holding is a funny guy.

Clrnc

So we sacrificed a UCL spot that is super important for us this season and let Spurs get it and strengthened their squad because we can't see the big picture and tolerate the lateness for just 4 more months.

I agree you have to show some flexibility to get to your end goal. And people who were speculating that Auba was disliked in the dressing room etc clearly not true looking at the first few eps. He was a great influence and everyone love him

flobaba

Gurgen wrote:
If only Arteta had built up a dossier against Partey as well. But I guess what he did isn’t as bad as being late. How did we manage to turn into the most vile club in a league that includes Chelsea and City?

First time offender bro.

Tam

All this see the big picture, toleration, flexibility talk is nonsense. Fact of the matter is, Aubameyang wasn't in form, hasn't been for a long time, and in the games that really lost us a chance at fourth he is extremely unlikely to have changed the outcome going by his early season form. The team improved because he wasn't in it. We were and are a better team without him. That we failed to get fourth place doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of him was the wrong decision, it means there were other failings that are more obvious.

Rules are there for a reason, you can't be easing them off and giving flexibility to suit individuals, then they cease being rules and you cease to have control over the squad. I've worked with people who were constantly late and pushed boundaries. Found them perfectly amiable people, but their impact certainly had an affect on the morale of myself and other colleagues and we questioned the management thinking behind it all. It would never be accepted in any other walk of life.

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
So we sacrificed a UCL spot that is super important for us this season and let Spurs get it and strengthened their squad because we can't see the big picture and tolerate the lateness for just 4 more months.

I agree you have to show some flexibility to get to your end goal. And people who were speculating that Auba was disliked in the dressing room etc clearly not true looking at the first few eps. He was a great influence and everyone love him

The question is when did the lateness start? He was punished the season before against Spurs so why didn't we move him in the summer rather than January when we would have had a better chance to replace him. You either get rid of him that summer or you put up with whatever for the following season. He didn't do anything outrageous anyway, these were tiny offences.

All this "he was out of form" stuff doesn't fly either, he was great as soon as he left us and even now big clubs want him.

QuincyAbeyie

Tam wrote:
All this see the big picture, toleration, flexibility talk is nonsense. Fact of the matter is, Aubameyang wasn't in form, hasn't been for a long time, and in the games that really lost us a chance at fourth he is extremely unlikely to have changed the outcome going by his early season form. The team improved because he wasn't in it. We were and are a better team without him. That we failed to get fourth place doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of him was the wrong decision, it means there were other failings that are more obvious.

Not getting rid of him, but getting rid of him before we had a replacement incoming.

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
All this "he was out of form" stuff doesn't fly either, he was great as soon as he left us and even now big clubs want him.

Like I said, we created the 18th best chance in the first half of the season, Auba was feeding on scraps.

And that argument ignores the fact we replaced him with someone worse. Laca was absolutely torrid for the half of the season till Nketiah came back.

Tam

jones wrote:
goon wrote:
If you ask someone not to do something and they do it multiple times, the situation will always come to a head. The fact that it's something as simple and innocuous as being late on multiple occasions actually makes it worse because it's pretty easy to be on time. Generally speaking there's nothing wrong with disliking someone's character too if you think things like being late are a symptom of it.

The thing about 'well if he applied it consistently he'd ban Xhaka for getting a red card or banish Cedric for being rubbish at football' is a false equivalence. We have no idea about who else does or does not follow the rules, how they're treated or what the consequences are.

I agree generally it's a false equivalence but that's missing the point. Arteta shouldn't get to define his own rules, no manager anywhere should the maxim always has to be everyone does their best to win as many football matches as possible. If that means you indulge a player being late on time at times then that's what you do, that's what a much better manager than Arteta in Tuchel did in the past and he's a bigger disciplinarian than him too. Just being strict so everyone sees there are rules for everyone doesn't help you winning football matches.

Give him a stern talking to in private, fine him 100k for every ten minutes he's late etc but what's a dossier supposed to help with other than have evidence to escalate it to the next level? Auba is by far the best striker we've had, only way you get rid of him is if you're positive you're getting in someone who's as good or know how to raise the goalscoring level from the rest of the team in his absence. We've scored 61 goals in the league 5 of which vs Everton on pointless match day 38.

That's nonsense, absolutely nonsense. Of course a manager gets to lay out his rules and expectations. Lack of rules and weak mentality are exactly what have landed us in the position we found ourselves in recent years. How else do you change that? I don't think there's any indication he was being strict for show.

As far as raising the goalscoring level of the team goes, removing Aubemeyang did exactly that. Of our 61 goals, 18 came in Auba's 14 games (1.3 per game). We scored 43 in the 23 games he was not involved (1.9 per game). If you take out goals from the Everton game (I don't know why you would) that drops to 1.6/1.7 depending on your rounding and agenda. So the stats show we got rid of him and raised our goalscoring level.

As far as the dossier goes, you're smart enough to know you need to capture things as they happen for the exact reason you outline. There's always a chance it escalates and you need evidence. There was clearly a point where Auba moved over a threshold of acceptability if Arteta started documenting instances of poor professionalism. I'm sure there are limits on what fines can be imposed upon players. As we're fond of speculation here, my own is that Auba had received plenty of fines from the club without much change in behaviour.

Tam

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Tam wrote:
All this see the big picture, toleration, flexibility talk is nonsense. Fact of the matter is, Aubameyang wasn't in form, hasn't been for a long time, and in the games that really lost us a chance at fourth he is extremely unlikely to have changed the outcome going by his early season form. The team improved because he wasn't in it. We were and are a better team without him. That we failed to get fourth place doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of him was the wrong decision, it means there were other failings that are more obvious.

Not getting rid of him, but getting rid of him before we had a replacement incoming.

Keep reading.....

Rohit

Everyone relates to some style of management. Making dossiers on a players indiscretions and convincing the ownership to get rid at any cost isn't something I can align with. I think someone like Wenger would have 'managed' Auba and his flaws as a professional better.

« Previous Page Next Page »