Yeah, but Holding limited our goal scoring potential.

Rohit wrote:

Yeah, but Holding limited our goal scoring potential.

You can't blame a CB for our goal potential mate. That's not what they're there for. Our lack of goals are down to our manager, his structure for our team, and our misfiring midfield and attack. The defence did their job more often than the attack/defence did.

Ben White is technically a level or two above any defenders we currently have. If we aim to boss things with the ball we need players like him.

I think he's extremely good on the ball too Dules. Someone mentioned a young Rio Ferdinand and I think that's pretty spot on.

Big Willie wrote:

Rohit wrote:

Yeah, but Holding limited our goal scoring potential.

You can't blame a CB for our goal potential mate. That's not what they're there for. Our lack of goals are down to our manager, his structure for our team, and our misfiring midfield and attack. The defence did their job more often than the attack/defence did.

I was only being a little caustic mate. I recognize and appreciate Holding's contribution to our football (defence) last season. It was really his first full season of football after a terrible injury too. Fans rooting for Gabriel basis his physical potential when there are enough holes in his game. He is no less likely to fail. I wouldn't mind seeing a White Holding partnership to kick things off.

My only concern with the lad is with the tats and fake tan he looks ready for a stint on Love Island.

Go easy on him - he has been living in Brighton for the past year or so

Thanks G89, I'd totally forgotten that Love Island is starting again this Monday.

I'm not worried White being at Arsenal means the end of Saliba. I don't think that would be the case at all.
I'm worried he's well overhyped.

Saliba can always partner him as a left sided centreback.

White, Gabriel, Saliba, Holding, Mari and Chambers is a good pool of defenders.

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

Saliba can always partner him as a left sided centreback.

White, Gabriel, Saliba, Holding, Mari and Chambers is a good pool of defenders.

6 CB’s for a club that is going to play one game a week for the majority of the season?

1/2 will have to leave.

Sicario wrote:

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

Saliba can always partner him as a left sided centreback.

White, Gabriel, Saliba, Holding, Mari and Chambers is a good pool of defenders.

6 CB’s for a club that is going to play one game a week for the majority of the season?

1/2 will have to leave.

Yep.

No chance we keep all of them unless Chambers is considered the RB.

Biggest talent there is Saliba. We have to reintegrate him in the squad.

banduan wrote:

I'm not worried White being at Arsenal means the end of Saliba. I don't think that would be the case at all.
I'm worried he's well overhyped.

He's not really hyped though is he? I didn't even know who he was until he got called up for England. Even Foden basically said he didn't know him

And then we drop 50mill on him. Just like that. I don’t really understand what we are doing, but ho hum it’s not my money.

I'm starting to wonder flobs. Would you prefer we go out and buy a cheaper defender who isn't rated as highly by the club?

I’m just all about that v word bro. Value. No one knows this cat or why he is so highly rated. At least I don’t, and I’m sure even the goon himself, who is more otfen right than wrong, wouldn’t say he wishlisted Ben White last summer or saw something special in him when he watched Brighton last season. I’m just saying. We are going to be spending money more irresponsibly than American Democrats in summer time if the prices being quoted for our main targets so far have been accurate. It ain’t right. So what he’s highly rated by the club? Are you saying the club’s evaluations are always impeccable? Xhaka plays (hopefully played) for us. Willian too. And you know how I feel about Auba’s contract.

Anyway like I said, it ain’t my money. Let them do as they please. I’m just a bit skeptical.

[/Twitter]

good a time as any to walk away

Gazza M wrote:

[/Twitter]

good a time as any to walk away

Nah. Let’s give em 10 mill more. Start a bidding war with ourselves.

Gazza M wrote:

[/Twitter]

good a time as any to walk away

I would not increase the offer by a penny. £50 mil in total and they want more? Taking the piss.

Let somebody else go in for him, we should pivot to Kounde if we really want a defender.

Wonder if Locatelli would still prefer Juve if we gave him the White money as a sign-on fee.

flobaba wrote:

I’m just all about that v word bro. Value. No one knows this cat or why he is so highly rated. At least I don’t, and I’m sure even the goon himself, who is more otfen right than wrong, wouldn’t say he wishlisted Ben White last summer or saw something special in him when he watched Brighton last season. I’m just saying. We are going to be spending money more irresponsibly than American Democrats in summer time if the prices being quoted for our main targets so far have been accurate. It ain’t right. So what he’s highly rated by the club? Are you saying the club’s evaluations are always impeccable? Xhaka plays (hopefully played) for us. Willian too. And you know how I feel about Auba’s contract.

Anyway like I said, it ain’t my money. Let them do as they please. I’m just a bit skeptical.

It's also not about trusting that the club know what their doing, it's about the approach we want them to take.

The question I'm asking is, do you go for 'value' or do you go for the best player you can afford, even if the latter is 'bad value' in comparison? 

For me it's go for the best player you can get. We've already heard from Romano that White is actually our third choice because the others are closer to the £75m mark, how far down the shopping list do you go to find value?

I have no idea personally if he's good or bad, I hadn't hadn't taken any notice of him, but I also hadn't seen Tierney, Gabriel or Martinelli so that's neither here not there. But he seems to be rated, got a call up for England, Leeds wanted to buy him for £25m and Brighton rated him highly enough last summer to reject despite him never playing a game for them. I'm still skeptical too, but it's more about how good he is rather than spending £50m.

He's an excellent player to be fair. He was Leeds's best player in 19/20 along with Philips and it was obvious from the first game that he was special. Bielsa was desperate to sign him but Brighton was adamant that he was going back to them, probably because they knew he'd command a transfer fee like this at some stage.

He was always going to need a couple of seasons in Premier League to get up to speed though, and we're going to have to give him one or two of those now. It's an irresponsible waste of transfer funds considering how many defenders we already have and how thin we are elsewhere, and it might take a while before we get something in return on the pitch, but I don't think his quality is disputed within the game. We're getting premium talent here, albeit at a premium rate.

ohboy!!! wrote:

Gazza M wrote:

[/Twitter]

good a time as any to walk away

I would not increase the offer by a penny. £50 mil in total and they want more? Taking the piss.

Let somebody else go in for him, we should pivot to Kounde if we really want a defender.

I really hope Brighton are stupid enough to reject our offer and we walk away, unlikely as that is. Rather get Skriniar for this kind of fee.

Walk away swiftly and get Saliba playing.

goon wrote:

It's also not about trusting that the club know what their doing, it's about the approach we want them to take.

This is exactly how you end up like Tottenham with a team chock full of expensive flops. It may move you along every now and then, but it’s going to be costly in the long term.

The question I'm asking is, do you go for 'value' or do you go for the best player you can afford, even if the latter is 'bad value' in comparison? 

For me it's go for the best player you can get. We've already heard from Romano that White is actually our third choice because the others are closer to the £75m mark, how far down the shopping list do you go to find value?

Is he the best player (defender) we can get for £50m though? Really? I bet you come end of season we are looking at another player from Leicester or Liepzig or one of them French clubs and saying how they are so good at finding quality players for below market rate compared to us yet again. And we are now at the same or lower level than them as a club or in our style of football. Value always, always has to be a key consideration unless you are absolutely sure about what you’re splurging out for. Klaus says he’s the bees knees, but I’m not sure I’ll take his word for it this time. Clrnc says he was the best in the championship. All well and good. So we take a look. Like we did Buendia. But when they start throwing out numbers like £50m for a championship great/ Leeds /Brighton level player, that’s not the sort of waters we want to be swimming in with any regularity, if at all.

BWooley wrote:

ohboy!!! wrote:

I would not increase the offer by a penny. £50 mil in total and they want more? Taking the piss.

Let somebody else go in for him, we should pivot to Kounde if we really want a defender.

I really hope Brighton are stupid enough to reject our offer and we walk away, unlikely as that is. Rather get Skriniar for this kind of fee.

It’s like when we started going crazy over bloody Lemar

flobaba wrote:

goon wrote:

It's also not about trusting that the club know what their doing, it's about the approach we want them to take.

This is exactly how you end up like Tottenham with a team chock full of expensive flops. It may move you along every now and then, but it’s going to be costly in the long term.

The question I'm asking is, do you go for 'value' or do you go for the best player you can afford, even if the latter is 'bad value' in comparison? 

For me it's go for the best player you can get. We've already heard from Romano that White is actually our third choice because the others are closer to the £75m mark, how far down the shopping list do you go to find value?

Is he the best player (defender) we can get for £50m though? Really? I bet you come end of season we are looking at another player from Leicester or Liepzig or one of them French clubs and saying how they are so good at finding quality players for below market rate compared to us yet again. And we are now at the same or lower level than them as a club or in our style of football. Value always, always has to be a key consideration unless you are absolutely sure about what you’re splurging out for. Klaus says he’s the bees knees, but I’m not sure I’ll take his word for it this time. Clrnc says he was the best in the championship. All well and good. So we take a look. Like we did Buendia. But when they start throwing out numbers like £50m for a championship great/ Leeds /Brighton level player, that’s not the sort of waters we want to be swimming in with any regularity, if at all.

I can't get on board with this type of thinking at all. You're buying the player not the vibes.

Is he the best defender we can sign for that price? I have no idea, but not knowing seems like a ludicrous basis to object to a transfer. And yes, if we all had access to a flux capacitor we'd be able to assemble the worlds best team on a tiny budget. But that's not how things work.

Anyway, lets leave it there.

Klaus wrote:

He's an excellent player to be fair. He was Leeds's best player in 19/20 along with Philips and it was obvious from the first game that he was special. Bielsa was desperate to sign him but Brighton was adamant that he was going back to them, probably because they knew he'd command a transfer fee like this at some stage.

He was always going to need a couple of seasons in Premier League to get up to speed though, and we're going to have to give him one or two of those now. It's an irresponsible waste of transfer funds considering how many defenders we already have and how thin we are elsewhere, and it might take a while before we get something in return on the pitch, but I don't think his quality is disputed within the game. We're getting premium talent here, albeit at a premium rate.

Leeds fans were obsessed with him. I agree that people need to be patient, there are still quite a few kinks to iron out with White.

Gazza M wrote:

[/Twitter]

good a time as any to walk away

We’re really going to break our transfer record on this guy aren’t we? Chumps running this club.

Is White the 'best' CB we can get for price = no, however that does not seem to be our criteria this summer.

There seems to be an underlying criteria to go big in terms of players who are fit for purpose AND already familiar/adapted to the EPL = able to hit the ground running. The other criteria seems to be we are also looking at the best quality we can get that fits those criteria so as to go hard to regain UEFA qualification and top4, which should be encouraging. Same scenario applies re Maddison & IMO it is the underlying criteria that drives their price.

Jed wrote:

Gazza M wrote:

[/Twitter]

good a time as any to walk away

We’re really going to break our transfer record on this guy aren’t we? Chumps running this club.

This transfer seems utterly bizarre. I really don't understand what our plan is. If there even is one.

Good ball-playing defenders are so important now. That Pessina goal that won Italy the Austria game was only possible due to a beautiful long pass from Bonucci to the right flank. Excited for the distribution this guy can add from the right

est wrote:

This transfer seems utterly bizarre. I really don't understand what our plan is. If there even is one.

White enables us to play a high defensive line with his pace - last season with Luiz and Holding as the CBR options we couldn't do so and less so with Xhaka as DLP.  He is also comfortable on the ball with his time as both FB and CM so as to both play out from the back and able to drive forward with ball at feet. As CB he is not dominant in the air, but he could transform our play as much as VVD or Dias did for their respective clubs but for different reasons. 

looking at this transfer in isolation, £50m is a lot to pay for a centerback outside the elite tier. but if this guy ends up at one of the big 4 clubs, we're not getting him unless he flops, and if he flops, why would we want him? EPL experience does matter, especially for younger players. he wont need an adjustment period. for the fee, he should be a nailed on starter from day 1. fine.

if this is part of a larger reconciliation at centerback, and there are other moves coming, fine. if we can sell holding for £20m, then cool. im sure a fellow mid table team would value an experienced english centerback who can slot in. if we were paying £30m for white (£50m - holding for £20m going out), people would say its a great price and a great piece of business. if white comes in, no one leaves, and this is our big signing of the window, then you have to say its a step in the wrong direction.

i keep harping on it, but we will be playing one game per week for most of the season, if not the entire season. the kids will play in the tinpot cup, and they dont factor into the starting XI or the second XI even. one game per week. we need 4 centerbacks. we'd have two right footed CBs in white and saliba, and two leftfooted CBs in gabriel and mari. we are sorted there. holding is surplus. there is no reason to keep him, and there is no reason to sell saliba. none.

the way we put a squad together is baffling. seriously baffling.

PSG signing Hakimi for pretty much the same we’re paying for Ben White.

I would rather pay the money for Hakimi if we could have signed him than to drop that amount for Ben White.
Two attacking fullback with pace , KT and Hakimi would do some serious damage .

mdgoonah41 wrote:

the way we put a squad together is baffling. seriously baffling.

Agreed to your other points about White likely being the start of something rather than just a signing in isolation.
I've said previously IMO sorting the CBs in order to be able to play a high line would be my priority this summer, as everything else follows on from there if we achieve that or not in regards to shape, roles and player physical attributes.

I also think resolving the CB/high line further gives a greater margin for error in terms of being 'fit for purpose' and/or in terms of overall team/match day quality, IF we then prioritise our remaining transfers to put together a bona fide spine that is fit for purpose re the intended tactic and shape.  In a best case scenario (being we sign the players to achieve the intended outcomes re high line and spine), the only other area we 'need' to address this summer is CM/AM subject to what shape we play.  All other positions can wait to Jan (Onana), and the following summer when we'd ideally be looking to add quality and depth following UEFA qualification.
Worst case scenario we are unable to do so and then need to spend in other areas to try to mitigate the weaknesses, and we may not have sufficient quality  or experience to be fit for purpose re top4.

Ray wrote:

PSG signing Hakimi for pretty much the same we’re paying for Ben White.

Is there ever a point when people say stuff like this? It's completely and utterly meaningless.