Ben White: Page 13 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Ben White

Claudius

Saliba is an inexperienced defender. He’s amazing. But inexperienced.
We spent this season bemoaning the overuse of kids in the frontline. Now we want to go and start a child in the back line. Losing Luiz meant that we needed another player who could lead the defense. I’ve mentioned this issue before (and gotten heat because Luiz is a figure of ridicule). Entrusting that leadership to a 20 year old seems a bit of a gamble. Does that mean that Saliba’s Arsenal career is over? No, he’s 20. He’s still got another decade in him

ohboy

Not sure about the stats above, but I watched white quite a few last season, and he was a very conservative passer.

Not sure where all the hype for him bringing us up the field comes from.

Not at all happy with this transfer, can’t believe we found £50mil in this climate, and spent it on him.

Seems quick, and hopefully he is a fast learner and can develop into a top player.

BWooley

Claudius wrote:
Saliba is an inexperienced defender. He’s amazing. But inexperienced.
We spent this season bemoaning the overuse of kids in the frontline. Now we want to go and start a child in the back line. Losing Luiz meant that we needed another player who could lead the defense. I’ve mentioned this issue before (and gotten heat because Luiz is a figure of ridicule). Entrusting that leadership to a 20 year old seems a bit of a gamble. Does that mean that Saliba’s Arsenal career is over? No, he’s 20. He’s still got another decade in him

If he signs another contract with us. After this year (assuming he spends it on loan), he has two more. That's time to sell or extend.

Claudius

By the way, £50m in this climate…
… I think pricing will bounce back this summer. The nearly full stadiums in Euro2020 will signal to clubs that futurr cash flows will be fine. So they will invest ahead of time

Claudius

BWooley wrote:
Claudius wrote:
Saliba is an inexperienced defender. He’s amazing. But inexperienced.
We spent this season bemoaning the overuse of kids in the frontline. Now we want to go and start a child in the back line. Losing Luiz meant that we needed another player who could lead the defense. I’ve mentioned this issue before (and gotten heat because Luiz is a figure of ridicule). Entrusting that leadership to a 20 year old seems a bit of a gamble. Does that mean that Saliba’s Arsenal career is over? No, he’s 20. He’s still got another decade in him

If he signs another contract with us. After this year (assuming he spends it on loan), he has two more. That's time to sell or extend.

So we extend him.

Clrnc

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

That french guy seems decent enough.

The Greek guy seems dominating too 🙂

Stats are misleading though, and I don't need them to know White has great potential. When Bielsa rate someone you know he is good.

By the way the Bielik comparison is so way off. People wanted us to not spend shit money to get an oldie like Sokratis and use Bielik as a 4th choice CB so we can spend on other areas that season. Saliba is a top young defender who has been in TOTY in Ligue 1 in the 2 seasons he played, costs 25m which is alot for an 18 year old. Rating them similarly is really weird

QuincyAbeyie

goon wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
I asked you back to get clarification on whether you were saying that spending 80m on a midfielder doesn't get you anything more than spending 30m, if you replied I didn't see it. I don't think that if you give someone 80m and tell him to get the best midfielder he can to Arsenal then he comes back with Neves and 50m cash. There are plenty of midfielders in world football, do you seriously think Neves is the best one out of everyone who would come here? I haven't watched that much football last season, but from what I'm hearing players like Neuhaus, Gravenberch, Caqueret, Goncalves or Renato Sanches would be better signings.

I didn't say he's the best, I said he's not going to be much cheaper, if at all, than the sort of names you or I would love to see.

How much do you think the guys you mentioned would cost? £50m (or £15m more than the quotes for Neves I've seen) at most? If we don't sign those guys, it may be because Arteta has poor taste in midfielders, it may be because they don't find us particularly attractive or have better options (at least 3 of those guys have been linked with United and Liverpool), but because we couldn't afford them? Maybe, but that seems like the least likely explanation in a summer we're linked with £60-70m James Maddison.

You can always pay more to make yourself attractive. It's like you haven't played FIFA career mode or FM before.

QuincyAbeyie

Claudius wrote:
Saliba is an inexperienced defender. He’s amazing. But inexperienced.
We spent this season bemoaning the overuse of kids in the frontline. Now we want to go and start a child in the back line. Losing Luiz meant that we needed another player who could lead the defense. I’ve mentioned this issue before (and gotten heat because Luiz is a figure of ridicule). Entrusting that leadership to a 20 year old seems a bit of a gamble. Does that mean that Saliba’s Arsenal career is over? No, he’s 20. He’s still got another decade in him

I don't think many would be unhappy with Saliba as a third choice (first choice backup). What people are unhappy about is clearly that it seems more likely that he'll be sold or loaned out. I wouldn't extend that contract if I was loaned out yet again after the previous fuck ups. If he will, then great - I don't mind one last loan if that happens.

Oh, and people have been bemoaning Saka's lack of rest, not the fact that he's been a starter for us. So I don't see the relevance there.

Claudius

The difference is this. There are a lot of games where ESR and Saka aren’t at 100%. Saliba will not have that leeway in defense. You make a mistake in defense and the same cats here calling for Saliba will be the first to kill to him. Guaranteed.

Clrnc

You think if Ben White makes a mistake the cats won't kill him too? Especially for 50m? That argument don't make sense. You are only as good as your last game, age is bloody irrelevant.

And we are not comparing Saliba with some world class proven defender. White as talented as he is don't have much more experience than Saliba

Qwiss

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

That french guy seems decent enough.

I was gonna add Saliba but seeing as he ( and Mavropranos) are in weaker leagues it wasn't really a like for like comparison.

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
Saliba is an inexperienced defender. He’s amazing. But inexperienced.
We spent this season bemoaning the overuse of kids in the frontline. Now we want to go and start a child in the back line. Losing Luiz meant that we needed another player who could lead the defense. I’ve mentioned this issue before (and gotten heat because Luiz is a figure of ridicule). Entrusting that leadership to a 20 year old seems a bit of a gamble. Does that mean that Saliba’s Arsenal career is over? No, he’s 20. He’s still got another decade in him

First of all Ben White isn't ready to lead the defence. He wasn't close to being that player at Brighton and he wont be that here next season either.

Secondly no one is asking for Saliba to be a guaranteed starter or lead the defence or any other straw man bullshit. People just think he should be one of the 4 defenders next season and maybe actually play a game for Arsenal.

jones

Qwiss! wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:

That french guy seems decent enough.

I was gonna add Saliba but seeing as he ( and Mavropranos) are in weaker leagues it wasn't really a like for like comparison.

Forget about different leagues you can't compare defenders using stats full stop. Being a centre back for Arsenal and for Brighton you might as well be playing a different sport.

KingslandBarge

Could Ben White also share the RB spot with Chambers potentially? If so then I could potentially envision Saliba remaining involved.

Claudius

jones wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
I was gonna add Saliba but seeing as he ( and Mavropranos) are in weaker leagues it wasn't really a like for like comparison.

Forget about different leagues you can't compare defenders using stats full stop. Being a centre back for Arsenal and for Brighton you might as well be playing a different sport.

Stats for midfielders and attackers are very well-developed. You can compare them very easily. Defenders are very hard as Jones says. You are best of just watching them unfortunately

Qwiss

Whenever I watched Brighton White never really looked all that great. Dunks consistently been better than him but I think we are signing White more for his future upside than his current level.

Rohit

Yes, I think so too. I don't mind it either if we spend on positions we need to. However, a club can't make too many signings for the future. Gabriel, Saliba, White all have massive future upside. Makes me wonder if the few reports on Holding being for sale could be true or there is no way that Saliba gets sold or loaned.

Klaus

Qwiss! wrote:
Whenever I watched Brighton White never really looked all that great. Dunks consistently been better than him but I think we are signing White more for his future upside than his current level.

I've watched them a bit too and while White had a pretty decent first season in Premier League I also think Dunk - and even Webster - were better this season.

White did get Brighton's Player of The Year award though to be fair, which if nothing else tells you that he's very appreciated by their fans.

Rohit

If we are looking to sell Holding then he should definitely get good value.

Klaus

Mari and Holding coming out top in terms of aerials/aerials won, tackles won, and goals conceded, which is exactly what I would have guessed beforehand.

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