Anzac wrote:

Following on from my earlier post (where I said IMO CB could be the most important transfer decision for this window in terms of impact to our play), IMO FB should be the LAST position we should spend any money this summer

You sir are insane.

Qwiss! wrote:

Anzac wrote:

Following on from my earlier post (where I said IMO CB could be the most important transfer decision for this window in terms of impact to our play), IMO FB should be the LAST position we should spend any money this summer

You sir are insane.

  
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
:brow:

TBF I agree on the AM position, it shouldn't be a priority when we have ESR. I just can't see how you want a CB over a RB though. We can play the type of football we want with the current CBs much more effectively than with the RBs. Chambers is decent but his lack of pace stops him making a real impact and chances of him staying fit are slim. CM and RB are the 2 areas we should focus on IMO as they are the 2 weakest spots in the first XI.

For Jones and anyone else that watches the Bundesliga, what's Tyler Adams like?

Positionally sound, very good tackler and has an extremely high work rate.

Not a great progressive passer but very good at keeping it simple.

However I don't understand the logic of signing a very good defensive midfielder only to play him at right back.

Well, it's certainly worked before.

mentalvortex wrote:

Positionally sound, very good tackler and has an extremely high work rate.

Not a great progressive passer but very good at keeping it simple.

Sounds like a description of Torreira when he was at Sampdoria.

mentalvortex wrote:

Positionally sound, very good tackler and has an extremely high work rate.

Not a great progressive passer but very good at keeping it simple.

However I don't understand the logic of signing a very good defensive midfielder only to play him at right back.

Makes sense if he wants the RB to play an inverted role into the midfield to allow one of the CMs to get forward?

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/315275/Show/Tyler-Adams

Qwiss! wrote:

TBF I agree on the AM position, it shouldn't be a priority when we have ESR. I just can't see how you want a CB over a RB though. We can play the type of football we want with the current CBs much more effectively than with the RBs. Chambers is decent but his lack of pace stops him making a real impact and chances of him staying fit are slim. CM and RB are the 2 areas we should focus on IMO as they are the 2 weakest spots in the first XI.

IMO this is only true IF what we have seen thus far is what Arteta wants.  Based upon his initial talk of wanting to play the game in the opposition half as the protagonists in the game, I don't believe that to be the case.  

IMO a high defensive line is crucial to improving our style and play.  Saliba and Mavropanos may well be able to do so, but IF the objective is to regain top4 next season without UEFA games, then I do not think they are ready as they will need to adapt to the EPL etc.  

If I was in Arteta's position and my job was on the line, then I'd want someone I know is experienced in that role, as opposed to someone who may be able to do so.  I also think this is why we are linked to so many players with EPL experience as well so as to minimise the impacts of players needing to adapt to the league.  That is not to say we should not buy anyone from outside English football, but the fewer the better.

Likewise when we talk about the AM I'm referring the the 3 in the 4231 and not just the CAM.  A high line to condense the field of play can mitigate the need for a CAM with the midfield closer to the forward line.  Even if you choose to retain the CAM the role requirements can change from currently providing a linking role to one more focused on end product in goals and/or assists, depending on the CF.  If the CF can create their own scoring opportunities on the ball you don't need and emphasis on creativity.  Likewise if they can contribute in the build up then again the CAM can be more towards a SS.

EDIT - also want to say I want a spine that is 'fit for purpose' in playing with a high defensive line = GK - CB - CM - CF - at least one in each area subject to shape and/or the roles of those in the spine.

I believe one of the biggest issues affecting our transfer flexibility is the homegrown requirement. A number of the players deemed worthy of selling such as AMN, Holding, Chambers, Nketiah, Willock and Bellerin are all part of our homegrown contingent and any reduction will require replacement which we don't seem to be able to supplement internally. We can also add Macey to the list as he was the first to be jettisoned a few months ago. Ideally many should be part of the squad still, but with funds to be raised people think they should be amongst the first to go which I think is a flawed plan.

Quick solutions to problem areas like Bertrand have chosen elsewhere and our lack of European football restricts the number of quality options we can attract. The fact we are after CBs and linked with White and Adarabiyo seems to indicate a need to switch out one homegrown option for another if we do sell. Even a potential Onana deal has problems as all senior GKs don't qualify. Means we will probably have to target another homegrown GK while loaning out the Icelander.

I don't really see that we have the ability (even if we get given a huge transfer kitty) to bring in any transformative players this window for various reasons. We should ideally look to cash in on players like Elneny, Torreira, Lacazette, Xhaka, Cedric, Mavpranos and Kolasinac first before going into what I believe are still very useful homegrown squad options who are much harder to replace.

It's going to be a very tough window for us and expect to do business pretty much at the end, and guessing involving more than one swap deal.

You don't need to replace home grown players technically, you just have to live with a maximum of 17 non-home grown players. With the likes Xhaka, Ceballos, Willian, Runnarsson and Luiz leaving, as well as potentially Elneny and Laca, which leaves around 8 spots open for non HG signings if my count is correct.

Worth bearing in mind that in the long term the likes of Martinelli, Saliba, Mavropanos, ESR, Saka, Balogun, Azeez, Patino will all have home grown status too if they stay/make it.

Anzac wrote:

Qwiss! wrote:

TBF I agree on the AM position, it shouldn't be a priority when we have ESR. I just can't see how you want a CB over a RB though. We can play the type of football we want with the current CBs much more effectively than with the RBs. Chambers is decent but his lack of pace stops him making a real impact and chances of him staying fit are slim. CM and RB are the 2 areas we should focus on IMO as they are the 2 weakest spots in the first XI.

IMO this is only true IF what we have seen thus far is what Arteta wants.  Based upon his initial talk of wanting to play the game in the opposition half as the protagonists in the game, I don't believe that to be the case. 

What Arteta wants has to be balanced with what Arteta does and what he is capable of. I don't believe he'll ever have a team playing in the opposition half like that because he is too conservative.  

[quote='Anzac' pid='1003547'IMO a high defensive line is crucial to improving our style and play.  Saliba and Mavropanos may well be able to do so, but IF the objective is to regain top4 next season without UEFA games, then I do not think they are ready as they will need to adapt to the EPL etc.  [/quote]

I don't believe for a second Arteta and Edu are capable of signing the sort of centre half that would be enough to change us into a top 4 team, you are talking about someone with a VVD impact. Its

[quote='Anzac' pid='1003547'If I was in Arteta's position and my job was on the line, then I'd want someone I know is experienced in that role, as opposed to someone who may be able to do so. [/quote]

This is a huge reason why he souldn't still be manager. The club needs to build with players like Saliba, Willock, etc but Arteta is focussed on his own career and will make short term moves. We seen that with Willian and I'm worried it'll only intensify with pressure building due to his poor management to date.

[quote='Anzac' pid='1003547'Likewise when we talk about the AM I'm referring the the 3 in the 4231 and not just the CAM.  A high line to condense the field of play can mitigate the need for a CAM with the midfield closer to the forward line.  Even if you choose to retain the CAM the role requirements can change from currently providing a linking role to one more focused on end product in goals and/or assists, depending on the CF. [/quote]

Either way thats what we need, its why I don't like the idea of spending a huge portion of our fund on Odegaard. He doesn't provide any of that, he's a tempo setter but we need an impactful player.

[quote='Anzac' pid='1003547'EDIT - also want to say I want a spine that is 'fit for purpose' in playing with a high defensive line = GK - CB - CM - CF - at least one in each area subject to shape and/or the roles of those in the spine.
[/quote]

You say "fit for purpose" a lot but it seems rather vague. Apart from "good players in their position" what exactly do you mean? To me we have a decent spine with Leno, Gabriel, Partey, Auba but we need complimentary players. The games moved on from that being enough, no one does anything now without good fullbacks for instance, centre forwards are being outscored by wide men like Salah, Mane, Son, Rashford, etc You need way more than a good spine to get back into the CL.

goon wrote:

You don't need to replace home grown players technically, you just have to live with a maximum of 17 non-home grown players. With the likes Xhaka, Ceballos, Willian, Runnarsson and Luiz leaving, as well as potentially Elneny and Laca, which leaves around 8 spots open for non HG signings if my count is correct.

Worth bearing in mind that in the long term the likes of Martinelli, Saliba, Mavropanos, ESR, Saka, Balogun, Azeez, Patino will all have home grown status too if they stay/make it.

Martinelli won't, we signed him two weeks too late I think. It's going to be more difficult to pull off transfers like him too post Brexit and there's been talk about the number of homegrown players increasing in the near future. But you're right, it's not going to affect us in the short term.

I see we are interested in Rodrigo de Paul. Highly unlikely with a inter, Atletico and Liverpool also rumored. I know Liverpool were linked in January as well.

If we got him would be interesting to see how we use him. For Udinese, he usually played right mid in their 352 formation. And for Argentina he plays right mid in the 433. He’s basically the guy keeping Buendia out. Would he play in a similar role for us if we got him?

He's about half the player Buendia is. Would be a classic Arsenal move to go for him instead.

An incredible player with off the charts dribbling and passing abilities. Last few seasons one of the best players in Serie A at getting the ball into opposition final third.

Lol. Incredible player. The first comment points to the fact that past it Arsenal reject Mkhi scored 13goals and had 11 assists in the same season in the same league…

De Paul had 9 and 10

Mkhi also got something like 30 goals and 20 assists in Bundesliga once. He can be a high output player in the right circumstances

Qwiss! wrote:

 What Arteta wants has to be balanced with what Arteta does and what he is capable of. I don't believe he'll ever have a team playing in the opposition half like that because he is too conservative. 

I don't believe for a second Arteta and Edu are capable of signing the sort of centre half that would be enough to change us into a top 4 team, you are talking about someone with a VVD impact. 

This is a huge reason why he souldn't still be manager. The club needs to build with players like Saliba, Willock, etc but Arteta is focussed on his own career and will make short term moves. We seen that with Willian and I'm worried it'll only intensify with pressure building due to his poor management to date.

Either way thats what we need, its why I don't like the idea of spending a huge portion of our fund on Odegaard. He doesn't provide any of that, he's a tempo setter but we need an impactful player.

You say "fit for purpose" a lot but it seems rather vague. Apart from "good players in their position" what exactly do you mean? To me we have a decent spine with Leno, Gabriel, Partey, Auba but we need complimentary players. The games moved on from that being enough, no one does anything now without good fullbacks for instance, centre forwards are being outscored by wide men like Salah, Mane, Son, Rashford, etc You need way more than a good spine to get back into the CL.

I suspect a big part of that conservativism may be the result of the mix 'n match nature of the team, and a change to a higher defensive line would resolve much of this, IF done correctly.

This is where IMO we have our priorities wrong as a club, as IMO Upamechano was the ideal option last summer or even in Jan before he agreed to sign with Bayern.  IF we go ahead for White we will be paying more even if it is less cash in a player + cash deal.  IF they don't get it right then I'd expect one or both to be gomne before the end of this calendar year.

I want him replaced but for different reasons.  I suspect the focus this summer is about being able to challenge for top4 whilst we are out of UEFA comps, which is why we are looking at more players already adapted to the demands of the English football season.
I agree re Saliba however I think another issue that has not been raised may well be that he played as LCB at Nice where we are looking for a replacement at RCB, which would mean another aspect Saliba needs to adjust his game to and him not being ready to be our starting RCB as yet.  I do think going forward our CB options will consist of Gabriel, Saliba, Mavropanos and a new mobile ball player for in the high line.

Agreed re the AMs need to be contributing in terms of end product, whether that be as part of a front 4 in a 4231, or front 5 in a 433.

IMO our current spine has good individual quality, but as yet it is not 'fit for purpose' in terms of Arteta's original statements about what he wants as I referred to previously.  
IMO Leno struggles in terms of playing with the ball at his feet, and we also saw him struggle with his decision making when he came out of his area for his red card.  Gabriel has the ability to play in the high line however I'm not sure he is a leader of a defence.  Partey is good but we need to settle on a role for him in addition to a partner.  Based on the talk when he joined I suspect the idea is for him to be more of a B2B role, which is the role Willock has done well in on loan.
PEA is a quality finisher but for mind he is almost too much of a specialist in that he rarely contributes outside the attacking 3rd, he cannot create for himself other than moving onto a through ball in behind the defence, and he avoids any physical challenges.
Again in reference to Arteta's statement re his style, then I'd look to replace both Leno and PEA in that spine in order to then be 'fit for purpose'.
I would also include someone from the creativity/playmaker roles as being part of the spine - and this could include 2 positions/roles (DLP and/or AP) depending on how you wanted to execute and what skill set the CF has.  AW used to want to set up his midfield with having a 'shuttler'/ball carrier between both a deep and advanced playmaker.  

I agree you need more than just a good spine that is 'fit for purpose' however that for me is the trunk of the tree.  The defence, midfield, attack and bench are the limbs coming off that trunk, and the players within each of those limbs are your branches/leaves.  Going back to my initial post this is why is prioritised both CB and CF as my priorities for this transfer window - particularly if we have limited funds.  IMO we have adequate options elsewhere (LB cover, RB, CM, AM) that can do the job IF we get that strong spine, and then it is about fine tuning players to roles with any funds that remain.  Next season if we regain top4 is when we go for upgrading the quality in those other positions as we also look to add depth.

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-five-xhaka-replacements-arsenal-transfer-arteta-bissouma
Neves, Bissouma, Anguissa, Berge, Willock

Where would he play Dules? Have never watched him. Is he a #10 for now or a wide playmaker? Good thing with Saka is that he can play in either position so it allows us to find someone in either position (preferably left sided).

He's a dribbling roaming winger who happens to be relatively tall and moved Central because of Lazios 352. His passing hold up and linking is good enough to play but he's better with the game in front of him, not sure he can develop like RVP because he's not clinical enough the rat always had a nose for goal in comparison. Brings a lot of other qualities though and would be immediate improvement over ESR or Saka in terms of directness and end product

I’d play him on the left side of the attack but would move him centrally if the game was set up for it.

He was so silky at Sevilla. His reception of the ball is superb.

This vid highlights what he’d bring to the side

Craft, and deftness we sorely lack

Reminds me of Welbeck.

What

Chelsea offering 43m plus Emerson for Hakimi. Think they will get him . We should have tried that move with Bellerin ages ago, heck give them Toreira too

https://dailycannon.com/2021/06/arsenal-bid-for-joaquin-correa/
had read elsewhere we would need to almost double our offer (which IMO would price him above what seems to be our cut-off at 30m), however this suggests Lazio may accept an over under 30m

the stand-out for me (from the various clips I've seen of him), has been his willingness to run at defenders with ball at feet and in traffic = not sure we have anyone who really does this to the same extent.

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/news/state-play-luis-campos-arsenal-20734325
bugger

Evan Ndicka from Frankfurt has been linked to Arsenal in a local newspaper which has normally reliable info. Left footed 21yo centre back who can cover at LB. He's a massive talent, strong on the ground in the air and rapid, very calm and good on the ball too and since last season shown marked improvement in joining the attack from LCB. No word on any fee or offer but probably won't go for less than 30m.

Why we're looking at yet another fucking centre back is beyond me though.

The good news for you is he'll probably be immediately loaned back to Frankfurt for the next 2 years.

Then touted to Newcastle before he ever dons a red and white shirt.

lol yeah, and then Wenger will sign a 17yr old from Africa.

Is Arteta looking to go back to 3-4-3 / 3-5-2 for good? Nothing else explains looking for another LCB, of all things.

BWooley wrote:

Is Arteta looking to go back to 3-4-3 / 3-5-2 for good? Nothing else explains looking for another LCB, of all things.

Please no, not a return of the horseshoe of misery!

Qwiss! wrote:

BWooley wrote:

Is Arteta looking to go back to 3-4-3 / 3-5-2 for good? Nothing else explains looking for another LCB, of all things.

Please no, not a return of the horseshoe of misery!

Mikel And The Horsehoe of Misery. Book 1 of the trilogy

Lots of links to Locateli in Italian papers today. They all say he prefers Juve but they have to raise funds and are way off the valuation.

This is where we need to learn from Villa, be really aggressive, have an offer accepted and offer the player a really positive vision (and big wages!) to get it done. Too much focus is on us being a poor selling side but I think this is where we’re often found lacking. We’re so timid when it comes to getting deals done, like we’re terrified of being ripped off.

goon wrote:

Lots of links to Locateli in Italian papers today. They all say he prefers Juve but they have to raise funds and are way off the valuation.

This is where we need to learn from Villa, be really aggressive, have an offer accepted and offer the player a really positive vision (and big wages!) to get it done. Too much focus is on us being a poor selling side but I think this is where we’re often found lacking. We’re so timid when it comes to getting deals done, like we’re terrified of being ripped off.

Don't think we're that bad at buying. Other than Buendia how many players were we close to signing in recent years and fucked it up eventually? Genuine question might be that I haven't paid that much attention.