Arsenal vs Benfica - Europa - 18/2 20h00 GMT. Francesinha sandwich: Page 23 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal vs Benfica - Europa - 18/2 20h00 GMT. Francesinha sandwich

flobaba

Consistency and aggressiveness (a willingness to be on the ball) are the keys to Ceballos’ success. He can be the Xabi Alonso of our team and take over Xhaka’s role if he would only attain those qualities. As it is now, like Ricky said, he has one or two good games, and then when the team isn’t playing well he also drops form badly, instead of upping his game and encouraging others to look to and for him. He is not a leader, unfortunately. That’s the one positive attribute Xhaka has that gives him a distinction from all our other midfield options.

Claudius

flobaba wrote:
Claudius wrote:
Why do we need 2 starters if we have Partey? We just need another Partey level mid. If the other clubs are not paying attention someone like the Rennes child Camavinga would be ideal. He can come in and start already. He's already played for France - the youngest debutant in almost a century for the national team and looked good that day. Price quoted is €50m but that would be worth it if we can dump a bunch of depth / loanees.

Just the sort to slip under the radar isn’t he? 🙂

I would agree in a typical market. But in a recession with broke ass clubs and people chasing Sancho, Grealish and Häland, some players are going to slip through the cracks. This is how you snatch players like Camavinga and Gravenberch. Both are also young enough that they can move in their primes if Arsenal doesn’t improve.

Even in a plush market, Ndombele slipped to Spurs. Imagine him next to Partey. We’d want for nothing

flobaba

@Claude: We aren’t exactly flush with cash either. Didn’t we just take on a huge loan? I don’t get involved with wishlisting or dream signing. What we ought to be trying to do is find value where no one else is looking, not hoping no one else is seeing the clear and obvious, and we can somehow get a player of his profile to come here because his idol is Herbert Chapman or whatever.

Ndombele had question marks about his attitude, and still they forked out 65 million pounds for him. In 2019. It’s taken 2 years for him to settle down and start showing his ability, and it’s not like he has definitely transformed their midfield. I know Mourinho isn’t helping but my point is if we shell out like that the player had better be dropping Haaland and Mbappe type performances/stats straight out the gate. If we start doing business like that in our current financial state, without that kind of instant impact, we will be in a whole lot of trouble very, very quickly.

mentalvortex

Claudius wrote:
flobaba wrote:
Just the sort to slip under the radar isn’t he? 🙂

I would agree in a typical market. But in a recession with broke ass clubs and people chasing Sancho, Grealish and Häland, some players are going to slip through the cracks. This is how you snatch players like Camavinga and Gravenberch. Both are also young enough that they can move in their primes if Arsenal doesn’t improve.

Even in a plush market, Ndombele slipped to Spurs. Imagine him next to Partey. We’d want for nothing

I would put Camavinga in that Grealish/Sancho Haaland bracket. He is beyond our budget.

However I agree with the rest.

Claudius

mentalvortex wrote:
Claudius wrote:
I would agree in a typical market. But in a recession with broke ass clubs and people chasing Sancho, Grealish and Häland, some players are going to slip through the cracks. This is how you snatch players like Camavinga and Gravenberch. Both are also young enough that they can move in their primes if Arsenal doesn’t improve.

Even in a plush market, Ndombele slipped to Spurs. Imagine him next to Partey. We’d want for nothing

I would put Camavinga in that Grealish/Sancho Haaland bracket. He is beyond our budget.

However I agree with the rest.

My point is we are going to run out of clubs with big money very quickly. Top 6 England, PSG, Bayern, maybe Barca/Real and then....
There will be entire leagues that have no financial flexibility, basically all of Ligue 1, Serie A and La Liga. Everyone else will be in trouble. We have a massive future income stream of premier league money, and a declining wage Bill. If we dump more players, we afford ourselves some flexibility to be active in the market even if we aren’t achieving big outgoing transfer fees.

This summer is an opportunity for sharks. We can sit and suffer like everyone else or we can make some moves that will put us in a winning position for the next few seasons. Any sizeable offers we make this summer will likely not be contested once you get past Sancho, Grealish, Haland etc.

Bosscielny

Claudius wrote:
My point is we are going to run out of clubs with big money very quickly. Top 6 England, PSG, Bayern, maybe Barca/Real and then....
There will be entire leagues that have no financial flexibility, basically all of Ligue 1, Serie A and La Liga. Everyone else will be in trouble. We have a massive future income stream of premier league money, and a declining wage Bill. If we dump more players, we afford ourselves some flexibility to be active in the market even if we aren’t achieving big outgoing transfer fees.

This summer is an opportunity for sharks. We can sit and suffer like everyone else or we can make some moves that will put us in a winning position for the next few seasons. Any sizeable offers we make this summer will likely not be contested once you get past Sancho, Grealish, Haland etc.

I’m optimistic. Last season we bought one of the most promising defenders in Europe, as well as one of the best midfielders in the world for less than what Maguire cost the year before.

I think we’ll be a big player in the summer window again.

Anzac

flobaba wrote:
@Claude: We aren’t exactly flush with cash either. Didn’t we just take on a huge loan? I don’t get involved with wishlisting or dream signing. What we ought to be trying to do is find value where no one else is looking, not hoping no one else is seeing the clear and obvious, and we can somehow get a player of his profile to come here because his idol is Herbert Chapman or whatever.

Ndombele had question marks about his attitude, and still they forked out 65 million pounds for him. In 2019. It’s taken 2 years for him to settle down and start showing his ability, and it’s not like he has definitely transformed their midfield. I know Mourinho isn’t helping but my point is if we shell out like that the player had better be dropping Haaland and Mbappe type performances/stats straight out the gate. If we start doing business like that in our current financial state, without that kind of instant impact, we will be in a whole lot of trouble very, very quickly.

Pepe being a case in point before COVID.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
It’s interesting that Ceballos sets a lot of people off. He’s so technically on point. And also does the defensive work. The only thing he can work on is making sure he is releasing faster even if it is riskier (the way Partey does). I think it’s against his nature because he wants to keep possession and control the ball. But if he learns to let go a little, he will be devastating.

It’s great that he does more defensive work than any other midfielder as well.

I think part of the problem is he is looking for progressive passing options and his midfield partner is leaving a hole on the left (because he is positioned more as a 3rd CB), meaning Ceballos has to turn back outside looking for options to release the ball. I think his distribution will improve with Partey as the latter is always making himself available for the ball and is always 'in motion'.

Anzac

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:
Have we seen Ceballos and Partey together properly yet?

It's the last throw of the dice for this season and one that might work quite nicely, before we buy two new starting-quality mids in the summer.

IMO there are at least 2 further options to be explored before we reach the last throw of the dice:
Firstly a Partey-MO/ESR CM pairing so as to give the left & right footed balance Arteta seems to prefer; and
An inverted midfield 3 with a DM/DLP and 2 CMs.

Pick a starting 3 from Partey, Ceballos, ESR, MO, Saka depending on shape and opposition.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Oh I didn't include MO nd Partey because I have a feeling Arteta will never try MO as a CM for some reason.

Agreed though it could be the one, especially because the new guy tends to hang back a bit - certainly much more than ESR who needs his spot at no. 10 back pronto.

Anzac

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:
Oh I didn't include MO nd Partey because I have a feeling Arteta will never try MO as a CM for some reason.

Agreed though it could be the one, especially because the new guy tends to hang back a bit - certainly much more than ESR who needs his spot at no. 10 back pronto.

It's actually why I want to see that inverted midfield 3:
#6 support - Partey/Ceballos;
#8 support - Partey/Ceballos/MO;
#8/10 attack - Ceballos/MO/ESR.

IMO it's similar to the potential options and roles seen at MC re Rodrigo, KdB, Silva and Gundogan, but not like for like as such.
If anything we'd possibly/potentially be more flexible in game - particularly with enabling the #6 and/or #8 to get forward into the final 3rd as seen with Partey's play for Ghana which can be a real weapon.

KingslandBarge

I wish I could find someone that speaks about me the same way Anzac speaks about the inverted midfield

Anzac

KingslandBarge wrote:
I wish I could find someone that speaks about me the same way Anzac speaks about the inverted midfield

😆

Doesn't have to be inverted & can also be flat.
I just prefer to have 1 sitting in midfield and 2 going forward, rather than the opposite way around where the CAM can be isolated/become a passenger.

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