Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 80 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Captain

We won't even make europa conference league. Pretty literally no chance of European football next season.

Claudius

I really don’t want either of these lower European competitions. They probably both cost us more to participate in then the money we make. Unless we resize the squad and dump wages aggressively. This summer we need to just cut contracts, and not renew or sell every unnecessary veteran so we have a lean squad for the league. This will be the core that we can add to if we get back into Europe.

Captain

Yeah, but less games means less gate receipts and possibly (probably?) less sponsorship money. Have to weigh that against whatever bonus incentives are in the players contracts.

Don't think it's straight forward, but obviously don't have the capacity to really know.

QuincyAbeyie

Europa League would've definitely been good for us, no question about it. Even as trash as we were this season we almost got to the final. The two easiest ways of getting back into the Champions League are winning the Europa League or keep getting to the semifinals until the new CL rules come into play and qualify through the UEFA coefficient accumulated from the EL.

Captain

'Getting rid' of owners is a no go, so we need to be serious and identify where we can actually improve.

First step is changing the manager. Unfortunately, we will probably botch this process by either letting Arteta stay or replacing him with somebody equally not right for the job.

lorddulaarsenal

Just want to hear something now and see what movements we see. Have to sit out a dull period now whilst we play out our remaining league games

Clrnc

Captain wrote:
'Getting rid' of owners is a no go, so we need to be serious and identify where we can actually improve.

First step is changing the manager. Unfortunately, we will probably botch this process by either letting Arteta stay or replacing him with somebody equally not right for the job.

Yep. That's definitely whats going to happen. Can't see us having the balls to make brave decisions decisively

Claudius

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Europa League would've definitely been good for us, no question about it. Even as trash as we were this season we almost got to the final. The two easiest ways of getting back into the Champions League are winning the Europa League or keep getting to the semifinals until the new CL rules come into play and qualify through the UEFA coefficient accumulated from the EL.

We never win the Europa League so, no, it’s not really a viable path to Champs League. And we have honestly struggled with managing multiple competitions. We are incredibly inconsistent, unable to put together good runs in the league while competing in Europe. Next season, let’s just zero-base. Get that right squad of youthful, athletic players for the league and let them go out and give a strong performance weekly. Give the team time to recover and work on the training field. No more training in Athens. And no more useless slugs on the team.

There are so many players to shift here. Xhaka, Laca, Willian, Luis and Ceballos are obvious. But there are others as well. Bellerin is physically busted now. And part of why he struggled yesterday was all the bad passes he got from Holding who gets a high pass completion through safe passes that can put the next player in trouble. Then there’s guys like Elneny sat on the bench. Clearing these guys out for next season is worth much more than any Europa participation. We need to reset.

And of course get them a gaffer who won’t have them passing in a U.

Gazza M

without europa, saka and martinelli wouldn't have had their recent arcs. the only upside is we may be more well rested next season, especially with the euros and afcon coming up. apart from that, no Europa is damaging on a number of levels

Claudius

Gazza I agree with you, Europa was useful for blooding these players.
But guess what, we have now identified Martinelli, Saka, ESR, Balogun. And can even retrieve guys like Saliba and Willock. The Europa League has given us an incredible crop of talent.

But we are not in the business of developing players. We are in the business of winning titles. And those 5 or 6 players now need to form part of a core with a few other senior professionals that can challenge for a title. We do not need to push another 4 or 5 kids through. We need to build a title winning squad now.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Has that gimp Ornstein come out to crush us all yet?

QuincyAbeyie

Claudius wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Europa League would've definitely been good for us, no question about it. Even as trash as we were this season we almost got to the final. The two easiest ways of getting back into the Champions League are winning the Europa League or keep getting to the semifinals until the new CL rules come into play and qualify through the UEFA coefficient accumulated from the EL.

We never win the Europa League so, no, it’s not really a viable path to Champs League.

What on earth is that logic 😆

Rohit

Europe is a big miss, for the cash we miss out on and the opportunity to test out players. The group stages of Europa League may hamper weekend preparations but we have a big squad and players are not overworked. There are 6 games to the final in the knock outs. 2 semi finals and one final in 4 attempts in the Europa League for us. 2 finals if we include Wenger's only other attempt in 2000. It's a very viable route to the CL for a club like ours. This idea that we get athletic players who are fresh every weekend and give ourselves a bigger chance of top 4 is highly misplaced. The competition for top 4 is intense. Liverpool may miss out this season, injuries notwithstanding and they have been proclaimed to have a 'model' to follow. We need skilled players and I am not sure that is happening without Europe. Our recruitment strategy will need complete overhaul right now. Fans wanted to drop out of CL because we lost big even though we made top 4 every time and always qualified for the knock-outs. Now apparently Europa League is the reason for our poor League form.

Rohit

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Claudius wrote:
We never win the Europa League so, no, it’s not really a viable path to Champs League.

What on earth is that logic 😆

It's crazy.

Claudius

The simple logic is this.

We have an expensive squad that Josh has said has a Champions League budget. When we are in the Champions League, we can make anywhere from £50m to £110m depending on where we finish.

When we are in the Europa League, we make around £15 to £30m depending on where we finish. Let’s look at the marginal players on the team who we keep so we can participate in two competitions. Guys like Elneny make £2,5m. Someone like Cedric £4m. That’s already £7m. Even the academy grads cost £1M or £2M each.

We do not make enough money to break even in the Europa League with our current squad make-up, if you think about it as the difference between the marginal cost of being in the Europa League vs the marginal revenue the tournament brings in.

Over and above that, it takes away focus from the league and we end up with these incredibly inconsistent results. If you take the marginal cost of being in Champions League vs the marginal revenue, then that is a different story altogether. That is lucrative given the outsize rewards.

The big problem for us now is we have a squad that is bloated to manage 2 competitions but filled with lots of really bad players. There is value in not being in this competition as a forcing mechanism to address this bloat.

GooneriC

The fact that he is still in the job says it all for me. He should have been sacked immediately after the game or at worst early this morning.
So disappointed in the whole club right now , can't bring myself to watch any more games with this group in charge.
If we don't watch it we will become another Leeds.

swider

Claudius wrote:
The simple logic is this.

We have an expensive squad that Josh has said has a Champions League budget. When we are in the Champions League, we can make anywhere from £50m to £110m depending on where we finish.

When we are in the Europa League, we make around £15 to £30m depending on where we finish. Let’s look at the marginal players on the team who we keep so we can participate in two competitions. Guys like Elneny make £2,5m. Someone like Cedric £4m. That’s already £7m. Even the academy grads cost £1M or £2M each.

We do not make enough money to break even in the Europa League with our current squad make-up, if you think about it as the difference between the marginal cost of being in the Europa League vs the marginal revenue the tournament brings in.

Over and above that, it takes away focus from the league and we end up with these incredibly inconsistent results. If you take the marginal cost of being in Champions League vs the marginal revenue, then that is a different story altogether. That is lucrative given the outsize rewards.

The big problem for us now is we have a squad that is bloated to manage 2 competitions but filled with lots of really bad players. There is value in not being in this competition as a forcing mechanism to address this bloat.

Wasn't it reported that we make money in EL than we used to in CL?

Clrnc

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Claudius wrote:
We never win the Europa League so, no, it’s not really a viable path to Champs League.

What on earth is that logic 😆

Claude must be on drugs 😆

BWooley

The one undeniable benefit of Arsenal not being in Europe is it reduces the number of games we need to tolerate per season. A few hours of my life that I get back for 12 weeks a year.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

And if Arteta and/or Kroenke are still here it reduces them to zero!

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