Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 59 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Qwiss

Don Pacifico wrote:
Sicario wrote:
Clutch manager?

More of a handbrake manager by all accounts.

😆

Very good.

Meatwad

if life under arteta means being shit most of the league season and then winning a major cup then sign me up. win the europa league after winning the fa cup last season and we could finish 17th next season as long as we win the champions league.

Clrnc

Meatwad wrote:
if life under arteta means being shit most of the league season and then winning a major cup then sign me up. win the europa league after winning the fa cup last season and we could finish 17th next season as long as we win the champions league.

I concur. I can take fighting relegation yearly if we win either a major cup yearly

QuincyAbeyie

There's usually some correlation there so don't worry, if we're fighting relegation we're not winning the CL. 🙂

Qwiss

Getting to the latter stages of the Europa should be a given if we are in it. Especially when facing the likes of Slavia Prague and Olympiakos in our knockout games.

goon

Agreed, we've probably made harder work of this year than it needed to be. The semi final and hopefully final is where Arteta can really earn his keep.

We have Fulham, Everton, Newcastle and West Brom in and around the semi final fixtures, it's a great chance to get some real positive momentum going for Arteta.

jones

Arteta needs to go regardless of whether he wins EL or not. The only reason we will have done it is because we have much better players available than the competition, last night's performance just sealed it for me if a team can hit those levels but does so once every quarter it means they're not being coached. We played three knockout ties, drew two and lost one vs Olympiakos Slavia and a dogshit Benfica side.

GooneriC

You're right jones , but the men making the decisions won't see it that way. Winning Europa and getting into the CL will be seen as a huge success. They will see the money , that will feel more important to them than what happens on the pitch.

goon

GooneriC wrote:
Winning Europa and getting into the CL will be seen as a huge success.... that will feel more important to them than what happens on the pitch.

That's some impressive mental gymnastics.

Sicario

jones wrote:
Arteta needs to go regardless of whether he wins EL or not. The only reason we will have done it is because we have much better players available than the competition, last night's performance just sealed it for me if a team can hit those levels but does so once every quarter it means they're not being coached. We played three knockout ties, drew two and lost one vs Olympiakos Slavia and a dogshit Benfica side.

Talk about glass half empty.

Knock out ties should be looked at the overall two legs not just one.

PSG lost against Bayern but no one is complaining.

It’s about managing the tie over 2 legs. If we win 3-0 first leg but lose 2-0 second leg who gives a flying fuck?

If we beat Utd (who have better players than us) in the final should he still go?

You clearly don’t like Arteta I get it.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

This fence is giving me severe splinters.

QuincyAbeyie

Sicario wrote:
jones wrote:
Arteta needs to go regardless of whether he wins EL or not. The only reason we will have done it is because we have much better players available than the competition, last night's performance just sealed it for me if a team can hit those levels but does so once every quarter it means they're not being coached. We played three knockout ties, drew two and lost one vs Olympiakos Slavia and a dogshit Benfica side.

Talk about glass half empty.

Knock out ties should be looked at the overall two legs not just one.

PSG lost against Bayern but no one is complaining.

It’s about managing the tie over 2 legs. If we win 3-0 first leg but lose 2-0 second leg who gives a flying fuck?

If we beat Utd (who have better players than us) in the final should he still go?

You clearly don’t like Arteta I get it.

Regardless, saying that the league doesn't matter makes no sense if you want to predict future performances. If we win the EL, the only match we won't have been favorites in would've been United and even that is 40/60 at worst. Looking solely at trophies won is just removing tons of useful variables in order to reach the conclusion you want.

awooga83

For me how the team performs over consistent number of games is more important factor then a small number of knock out games in competitions where we should really be getting to the latter stages.

If we win the Europa League I still don't believe from seeing how we have played under Arteta that we are making the right progress under him similar to how the FA Cup appears. That wasn't really a reflection on his overall management but fantastic performance in both games by one of our best players.

I accept he would unlikely be got rid of but winning that would not make me see this season as a progressive one for the team and it's long term prospects.

jones

Sicario wrote:
jones wrote:
Arteta needs to go regardless of whether he wins EL or not. The only reason we will have done it is because we have much better players available than the competition, last night's performance just sealed it for me if a team can hit those levels but does so once every quarter it means they're not being coached. We played three knockout ties, drew two and lost one vs Olympiakos Slavia and a dogshit Benfica side.

Talk about glass half empty.

Knock out ties should be looked at the overall two legs not just one.

PSG lost against Bayern but no one is complaining.

It’s about managing the tie over 2 legs. If we win 3-0 first leg but lose 2-0 second leg who gives a flying fuck?

If we beat Utd (who have better players than us) in the final should he still go?

You clearly don’t like Arteta I get it.

PSG played against a world class team and bar poor finishing would've won both legs. We played soul destroying football bar a couple spells in every game before yesterday.

I don't think United have better players than us. I actually think Ole bumbled his way to a setup that gets quite a lot out of the squad he has, because overall bar Fernandes and Pogba who's still extremely flaky who do they have who you'd really desire at our club? Rashford is decent enough but far from world class. Greenwood is a good talent but not much more, we have three players his age and position who are better.

Arteta on the other hand has most of the squad underperforming, great game yesterday notwithstanding. Nothing to do with liking him or not, we have players like Pepe Saka Partey Auba Tierney etc in the squad, guys with a sky high roof yet we're battling it out with Leeds and Villa, he's woefully out of his depth at this point in time it should be obvious by now.

goon

awooga83 wrote:
If we win the Europa League I still don't believe from seeing how we have played under Arteta that we are making the right progress under him similar to how the FA Cup appears. That wasn't really a reflection on his overall management but fantastic performance in both games by one of our best players.

Generally agree that the EL is no way to judge how Arteta is performing but disagree with this. You're making it sound like Auba was the only one to perform in those games, in reality the whole team was excellent.

When the team doesn't play well it's not the players who are good enough it's Arteta who's failing to get the best out of them but when it they do perform, it's not down to Arteta's management? You can't have it both ways. Also manager relies on their best players performing when they win, there's no exceptions.

Arteta did really well to win us the cup, he's also done enough to get us into the semi finals in the EL. It can also be true that he's not been able to get those performances out of the players anywhere near consistently enough in the league. Part of that will be down to the players, but part of it is also down to tactical and team selections errors.

In reality he'll start next season whether he wins the EL or not, but winning it and qualifying for the CL means he'll just about deserve to and will probably mean he starts next season with a bit more leeway.

Qwiss

I think Arteta made a massive contribution to that cup run. He was shrewd tactically and had the players up for those big games against serious opposition. I don't think there's much credit due yet for the Europa run though, we've had a particularly easy run. If he can beat Emery and Utd I'll give him credit though.

flobaba

jones wrote:
Arteta needs to go regardless of whether he wins EL or not. The only reason we will have done it is because we have much better players available than the competition, last night's performance just sealed it for me if a team can hit those levels but does so once every quarter it means they're not being coached. We played three knockout ties, drew two and lost one vs Olympiakos Slavia and a dogshit Benfica side.

I’m starting to lean this way. I was absolutely livid after the first leg, and the second leg just annoyed me when we actually decided to come out and play. Our inconsistency is a problem, and that can only be blamed on the manager. It plagues us in both the league and Europa. Arteta’s done okay, but it’s hard to convince me that we aren’t better than 9th or 10th position or wherever we’ll end up at the end of the day relative to the competition. At the very least we should be a 5th Place team in this league. And that would be par for the course.

Coombs

It can only be blamed on the manager? Why? Jones just hates Arteta irrationally, but this kind if thinking is very confusing. If we win, someone has always "bailed him out", but if we lose, it's because of tactics or selection. It's just nonsensical.

QuincyAbeyie

Coombs just loves Arteta irrationally, but this kind of thinking is very confusing. If we lose, the players are always "not good enough", but if we win, it's because of tactics or selection. It's just nonsensical.

Clrnc

😆

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