Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 252 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Clrnc

I think there were twice the whole forum thinks Arteta should be sacked including goon and Coombs who felt strongly he should go. One was start of this season and one was mid of last season.

All those doesn't matter if ultimately Arteta gets into top 4 this season. The goalposts would then change

goon

Sounds about right, though I would say even in those periods and quickly flip flopped. Arteta has seen that ultimately I will go down on the right side of history.

flobaba

You will go down as always goon, on both sides of history.

FEBravo

Clrnc wrote:
I think there were twice the whole forum thinks Arteta should be sacked including goon and Coombs who felt strongly he should go. One was start of this season and one was mid of last season.

All those doesn't matter if ultimately Arteta gets into top 4 this season. The goalposts would then change

Don't think the goalposts would change as much as he actually reached them. Most people who wanted him gone did not believe he could deliver top 4, and in fairness even a large portion of those who wanted him to stay did not think he would deliver it this year.

If he actually makes it, everyone will be happy and Arteta should get the credit for this, and even more so in a way in that he really will have " turned it around". That being said, it doesn't mean that it was not right to sack him earlier, but that's largely irrelevant and neither here nor there now. He makes it, he gets credit and the opportunity to lead us into the CL and see how far he can take the team next year. Then the goalposts will obviously have changed.

I wanted him out, but I'm happy he is succeeding, because it means Arsenal are doing well and he now has my full backing. In a way he has set himself up for failure now as it will be even more disappointing if we don't make it. But if we do, and combined with the exciting young team we have, I can't help but be positive. It's the hope that kills you!

Ricky1985

I was worried after Everton, but hoped Arteta just needed time to coach and grow the young team as he had only just started fielding them.

I thought the calls to sack him after the first three games were unbelievable tbh, and that whatever happened he deserved at least until January to try and bring the team he had in his mind together and get it playing how he wanted to.

Anzac

TBH even if we make UCL qualification the next major test for Arteta/Edu will come in the summer transfer window in regards to completing the rebuild AND improving our quality to take us to the 'next level'.

For mind that 'next level' for next season isn't so much about progressing beyond UCL Group Stage, but more about retaining top4/UCL and replacing CFC as the clear 3rd best team in the EPL.

Doc

There is definitely levels to this and if we get CL, there will be a whole new set of challenges the he will need to prove himself against, but the vision thats been laid out and the 'project' in place, I think its definitely been worth the short term pain.

First 6 month of last season where probably the worst I have seen as an Arsenal supporter and he was struggling to stay a float.. but felt there needed to be patience and from the 2nd half of last season, you could see things where changing in the right direction and backed him since then, even if result where not.. Massive summer changes where also always going to a bit of time to settle and a big risk but looks like it paying off nicely. Still need to finish the season strongly..

Burnwinter

Anzac wrote:
TBH even if we make UCL qualification the next major test for Arteta/Edu will come in the summer transfer window in regards to completing the rebuild AND improving our quality to take us to the 'next level'.

For mind that 'next level' for next season isn't so much about progressing beyond UCL Group Stage, but more about retaining top4/UCL and replacing CFC as the clear 3rd best team in the EPL.

This is an accurate picture of our more optimistic trajectory next season. Could be a lot worse, the league's very competitive and our squad isn't vast or overpowered.

To those who say they wouldn't sack Arteta now, but if they went back in time six months they'd certainly still sack him then, it's impressive that your need not just to be right but to always have been right outweighs the benefits of hindsight to Arsenal. :hat:

QuincyAbeyie

It's impressive that this is your interpretation. :hat:

Burnwinter

Hang on a sec, it's been a while since I read the posts.

Burnwinter

Sicario wrote:
Ok let me put it to you like this. In hindsight, knowing what you know now, would you still have sacked him 6-12 months ago?

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Yes.

Here we go. Reading back my interpretation hardly seems "impressive", it's not like I'm working against the grain.

Just find it strange this insistence there weren't aspects of the club's situation and Arteta's leadership in, say, September that were missed, as if reality itself has been as changeable as perceptions.

Doc

I mean the logic doesn't make much sense tbh. You cant base a decision like that on the right here and now and ignore the past and future... You either think he was worth sticking with or not. if you would still go back and sack him 6months ago then you dont really believe the present or the future will be worth the pain we went through. In that case why not sack him now?

The same would apply to players then. If i think a player is shit and should be sold and he turns out to be great in a year. Its not that I was wrong or didnt see his potential.. It was that I was right then and im right now that he magically got good.. and if he becomes shit again in the future, I would still be right because he changed back? Or maybe I would be more right because I originally was right about him being shitt, right? Fuck, im confused now..

QuincyAbeyie

Burnwinter wrote:
Sicario wrote:
Ok let me put it to you like this. In hindsight, knowing what you know now, would you still have sacked him 6-12 months ago?

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Yes.

Here we go. Reading back my interpretation hardly seems "impressive", it's not like I'm working against the grain.

Just find it strange this insistence there weren't aspects of the club's situation and Arteta's leadership in, say, September that were missed, as if reality itself has been as changeable as perceptions.

Why is me thinking we'd be better off if we fired Arteta a year ago and me thinking he does enough at the moment to keep his job incompatible opinions?

goon

It's an utterly bizarre stance for sure.

Sicario

Back to the future was a really good film

Quincy McFly

QuincyAbeyie

Sicario wrote:
Back to the future was a really good film

Quincy McFly

Said the person who's asking me what I would do if I could travel back in time knowing what I do now, unironically.

KurtEisner

The way I read it Quincy thinks we should have fired Arteta a year ago and gotten a better manager in, who would have gotten us as far as or further than Arteta has this season. Now that Arteta is on course to reach Top 4, he's willing to give him the chance to continue, because his performance has improved. That doesn't mean there still aren't better options out there, it just means that at this point in time he shouldn't be fired and it'd send the wrong message to punish him for what he did or didn't do a year ago. Don't see what's so bizarre about that tbh.

Burnwinter

Not specifically about Quince since he's not the only one who talks this way.

The thought pattern is odd to me, though no doubt I do it myself on occasion. It's a bit like sitting on your picnic blanket in the pouring rain while declaring to your date "I was right to insist we drive out here yesterday evening, and if I could have my time again nothing would change!"

Burnwinter

Actually that's a terrible analogy and a bit of a sneaky one, don't mind me.

It's not as if if Arteta had been sacked and things had gone far worse there'd have been much inquiry into whether sacking him had been a mistake ...

Clrnc

I think what Quincy meant is in normal circumstances at any other big club Arteta won't have lasted this long because his results weren't good enough in the first place. So even with hindsight, it would have been better to hire a better manager, let him free reign and spend like the summer that gone and we would still be better off than now?

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