Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 248 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Ray

Burnwinter wrote:
Jesus really doesn't want you for a sunbeam, does he Ray?

Anyway take your point about the challenges next season if we do make the CL, but I don't think Arsenal looks on the same track as United, or Arteta Solskjaer ... we've got our own set of different problems.

😆 I guess the difference is probably that Solskjaer was working with a bigger budget / quality players, whereas Arteta has built this team.

goon

I mean I do think it's important that we maintain a certain level of consistency now and avoid that Ole boom bust cycle. It's essential to establishing ourselves as a team moving forward. Shorten the blips and make the runs longer.

lorddulaarsenal

Top manager

Shady

I've got reservations about Arteta, but he clearly has more of a clue than Solskjaer.

Qwiss

As much as I loved slagging him offto my United mates I think Solskjaer actually got the best of what he had at United last season. He played to his teams strengths and finished 2nd and got them to a European final. I actually think United sort of fucked him over. Imagine how badly things would blow up here if Arteta was saddled with Ronaldo and Pogba for instance.

Anyway at least that level of short sightedness doesn't seem to be something Arteta is going to have to deal with so the challenges he'll face next season are quite different. I do worry that we'll struggle with the schedule next season but thats something for Arteta and Edu to sort out in the summer.

RocktheCasbah

I wrote something on this subject - which I find fascinating - for Daily Cannon, have a read:

https://dailycannon.com/2022/03/arsenal-fans-arteta/

Burnwinter

I reckon we'll struggle with the fixtures if we're in Europe next season too, but weirdly I have the feeling Arteta will at least address the problem systematically, and may even have looked ahead a bit with the squad clearout that's been happening. A sane plan for who we need to sign that we might not get done in one window.

If we do go okay this season, I think the next challenges will be when reality doesn't behave rationally, for example if players we sign are terrible flops against the odds and so on.

Arteta's in a good spot currently, but it's his capacity to transcend unexpected setbacks through lateral thought, creativity and charisma that might end up a concern.

Burnwinter

Nice piece Paul, enjoyed it. I'm not sure it's just matchgoing fans as I've been surprised by how buoyed I've felt this season.

I think perhaps the people who watch more football than I do on here have tended to be more negative, and perhaps that's due to a broader landscape of what's possible? And then there are those still processing the loss of Wenger, and maybe others who are just realists, and know more deeply that a top four place even if we grab one doesn't guarantee anything much. For me it's still a better time to be a gooner than in years.

RocktheCasbah

No, you're right, it's probably just my uncle and everyone else who has decided that Mikel Arteta will have to win the league unbeaten in the same season as we finally achieve Champions League nirvana before they accept him.

But there is something about being at the Emirates this season, as I say, best it's been in 15 years imo.

goon

I was a bit taken aback by how different the sentiments are between match going fans I know irl and what you see online, even on here. I think I've mentioned it on here before but I've been reluctant to explore it too much as I don't want to be seen as a match going snob. It's a different issue though, the matchday experience insulates you from some of the toxicity of the online world, but I don't think it explains the general divide, because that exists even if you take the match going fans out of the equation. This place tells me that it's mostly about how much you bought into Arteta's pitch. A lot of the most negative on here were never taken in by him in the first place, so it sort of makes sense that they'd need more to be won over. Now that we're doing well that divide is slowly starting to vanish or at least taking a back seat.

There's definitely something different about it this year going to matches though, a real sense of positivity. We often used to talk about how it's the teams responsibility to gee up the fans and that's usually been the case at the Emirates but 100% the fans have driven the atmosphere this season. A lot of the cynicism and moaning I used to experience at games has now completely evaporated. This has been the case even at the low points, I went to the Norwich game while we sat bottom of the table. We put in a largely lacklustre performance and won 1-0 but the atmosphere was good and supportive.

Shady

What's the comparison between then/now and the weeks leading up to the first lockdown? I would think a lot of grounds have had a bit of a bump in atmosphere, just out of the joy and relief of being back in the stadiums.

Sicario

I’ve been going to the Emirates since 2010 (on average 10 home games a season. 2019/2020 only season I had a season ticket). This year is by far the best it’s been atmosphere wise. Reasons imo:

1) Lower expectations. Finishing 4th is seen as the summit whereas 10 years ago it was a given.
2) As Shady said, the pandemic definitely was a game changer and now fans are more appreciative of watching their beloved team play
3) No more Wenger. The whole ‘Wenger in Wenger Out’ debate was very tiring for our fan base and led to the stadium being very toxic
4) Less games to play this season means less ‘fans fatigue’ and we make more of home games as we have less opportunities to watch the team than normal (ie when we were in Europe)
5)The Hale End boys. It’s easy to get behind a team full of youngsters and dare I say it most of them being English/homegrown.
6) Tourists have fucked off - meaning the fans that attend are truer to the Arsenal core. As we have been shit last 10 years we have gotten rid of the glory hunters.
7) On the whole this season we’ve played well. It’s much easier getting behind a team that is doing well than the latter years of Wenger reign.
8 ) Less emotional baggage in the the squad. Our current squad feels fresh, there are no Walcott/Denilson/Eboue/Mustafi players that annoy us fans, less scapegoats as well. No dickhead (apart from Xhaka) policy has clearly helped.

However, fans are fickle, if we do well this season (ie get top 4), the expectation levels will go up next season which could bring some of the issues I mentioned above but ultimately a team with a few homegrown stars and players giving its all leading to us being successful will keep the supporters on side no doubt. Let’s hope for more of the same moving forward.

Anzac

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Anzac wrote:
Whilst I know Partey meets that description we did so via his release clause which is different to wanting to join us as seen with the Elite clubs.

Why? Activating a release clause removes the selling club from the negotiation, not the player.

I realise that Partey could still have said no, but in general players are unlikely to do so if they are offered a better pay day and signing on fee.
Whilst it is smart business IMO it's not the same as having players looking to join us or being sold on the project as Odegaard says he was.
IMO securing UCL qualification is a big step in achieving that, as is the quality seen in our attacking play in the last month or so.

QuincyAbeyie

Anzac wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Why? Activating a release clause removes the selling club from the negotiation, not the player.

I realise that Partey could still have said no, but in general players are unlikely to do so if they are offered a better pay day and signing on fee.
Whilst it is smart business IMO it's not the same as having players looking to join us or being sold on the project as Odegaard says he was.
IMO securing UCL qualification is a big step in achieving that, as is the quality seen in our attacking play in the last month or so.

And again, how is signing someone without a release clause different to activating a release clause in this sense? You need to convince the player in both cases, whether that's with a better pay day or selling them on a project. Literally the only difference is that the club can't refuse him if he wants to leave with a release clause, that's not got anything to do with convincing the player.

Anzac

My remaining gripes are:

unless we regain UCL Arteta as manager doesn't have the allure/credentials compared to the other big6 managers, to attract top players which will hamper us in the market;
I absolutely disagree with the idea that top4 is a bonus this season and our plan is based upon regaining UEFA qualification via top6. Our numbers last season post the Boxing Day win v CFC had us in top4 even before we started the rebuild. Then there is the point that we had no other distractions this season.

IMO this is almost the perfect scenario to regain top4/UCL, however IMO we have not planned to do so as we still do not have a spine to the team that is yet for for purpose, and whilst we are seeing good play and the numbers match the performances, it has only started with the recent tweaks after the transfer window. As yet I am still not sure KSE will continue to back Arteta financially in the market to enable him to sign the quality and numbers he will need to be able to retain top4 whilst also participating in UEFA.

Anzac

Latte Firm

Fans' Forum - Arteta's 'New System'

discussion with the writer of this article
https://gunnerstown.com/arsenal/2022/02/17/a-deeper-dive-into-mikel-artetas-flexible-long-term-system-for-his-arsenal/

ohboy

Sicario wrote:
I’ve been going to the Emirates since 2010 (on average 10 home games a season. 2019/2020 only season I had a season ticket). This year is by far the best it’s been atmosphere wise. Reasons imo:

1) Lower expectations. Finishing 4th is seen as the summit whereas 10 years ago it was a given.
2) As Shady said, the pandemic definitely was a game changer and now fans are more appreciative of watching their beloved team play
3) No more Wenger. The whole ‘Wenger in Wenger Out’ debate was very tiring for our fan base and led to the stadium being very toxic
4) Less games to play this season means less ‘fans fatigue’ and we make more of home games as we have less opportunities to watch the team than normal (ie when we were in Europe)
5)The Hale End boys. It’s easy to get behind a team full of youngsters and dare I say it most of them being English/homegrown.
6) Tourists have fucked off - meaning the fans that attend are truer to the Arsenal core. As we have been shit last 10 years we have gotten rid of the glory hunters.
7) On the whole this season we’ve played well. It’s much easier getting behind a team that is doing well than the latter years of Wenger reign.
8 ) Less emotional baggage in the the squad. Our current squad feels fresh, there are no Walcott/Denilson/Eboue/Mustafi players that annoy us fans, less scapegoats as well. No dickhead (apart from Xhaka) policy has clearly helped.

However, fans are fickle, if we do well this season (ie get top 4), the expectation levels will go up next season which could bring some of the issues I mentioned above but ultimately a team with a few homegrown stars and players giving its all leading to us being successful will keep the supporters on side no doubt. Let’s hope for more of the same moving forward.

Got to say, a lot of that is true.

I go to games, I don’t think everyone is 100% behind Arteta, but you can see what he wants to do.

If we make CL, everyone should remember that in our position, it is a tool to get better players to improve our team. No more, no less.

We aren’t going to win the league next year, but we can try and cement ourselves in the top 5 teams again, which means always around the top 4 and a possible challenge depending on the level of our rivals.

Burnwinter

As a non-matchgoer, it's just been great to hear the atmosphere during our home matches on the telly, even during mayhem like the City meltdown you could tell the refs were intimidated. Keep it up lads!

Anzac

Burnwinter wrote:
As a non-matchgoer, it's just been great to hear the atmosphere during our home matches on the telly, even during mayhem like the City meltdown you could tell the refs were intimidated. Keep it up lads!

Seconded & have said previously the connection between the team and match going supporters both Home and Away may be the biggest achievement by Arteta thus far.

Anzac

ohboy!!! wrote:
We aren’t going to win the league next year, but we can try and cement ourselves in the top 5 teams again, which means always around the top 4 and a possible challenge depending on the level of our rivals.

IMO the CFC sale potentially means they will not have the same bail out each season re their operating costs, so this may be as well as they get for some time & they may revert back to the way they operated prior to Abramovich. If so then IMO we should be looking to fill the gap as #3, particularly whilst MU and TH are struggling to get their shit together.

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