Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 166 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Anzac

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-top-ten-disappointments-season-willock-lukaku-arsenal-leeds

4) Arsenal
Two years of Trusting the Process under Mikel Arteta and not only does there still not appear any definitive destination for this journey, it’s no longer even particularly clear what the process actually is. The eye-catching finish to last season once the pressure was off has been exposed as just another illusion. Arsenal are just existing. There is no clear plan and their only wins this season have been against the seemingly doomed pair of Norwich and Burnley and a Spurs side who have been mainly awful and responded to the pressure of a north London Derby by eschewing midfield altogether. A scrambled home draw against Palace left thoughts turning inevitably to whether Arsenal even had the right former player in charge.

jones

Mirth wrote:
Coombs wrote:
I don't think that's true at all. What malaise? It's not like under Emery or even late stage Wenger from what I can tell. We've got the bones of an excellent squad and all we need is the right management team to get them playing. Giving the current dopes another window doesn't really bother me because as far as talent ID they're quite strong. It's the match day that Arteta can't hack.

What I don't want to see is someone like Conte coming in and he and Edu signing a bunch of one-season wonders just to make top 4. When that short cycle ends, we're back to where we were 2 years ago.

A sustainable top half PL club that plays good football with a valuable squad of early-mid career players will get us further than any single decent season.

Quite incredible to look at the club that's finished at its lowest position in 25 years for two seasons in a row, while finishing below Spurs, playing some of the worst football in the club's recent history and ask 'what malaise?'. That's piss poor in relative and absolute terms

We've made some signings that have changed the profile of the squad for the better, that's definitely a positive and the club have done well. However, saying that you're not interested in someone like Conte because he's only focused on the short term cycle is a fundamental misreading of the priorities of the club and the nature of the league. Developing the squad is important but Wenger left in 2018 and we've been in transition ever since - the only thing that matters now is the league position. Worrying about what happens two years from now is a luxury and the same trap we've fallen into several times since 2007.

Bang on

I don't think there's this short vs long term divide between coaches anyway. Conte is a great coach no two ways about it, he'll make a bunch of questionable purchases if you let him but there are plenty of young players he's developed over the years, and even if he decided to bin one as long as it isn't Saka none of them are really untouchable.

On the other hand Arteta who's allegedly a long term thinker has already seen the likes of Tierney and Martinelli severely deteriorate under him. I won't forgive him if the latter especially doesn't turn out world class after he fucks off

Coombs

I think we were operating under a different understanding of the word "malaise".

Clrnc

It seems like everyone is on the same page of understanding md post except you coombs. And I wonder what other angle of malaise you are looking at.

Mirth is spot on. Football don't wait for anyone, we need to stop having the ridiculous idea that it takes 2 to 3 years to get success and focus on the present.

Captain

Please sack this man.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Most uninspiring coach in the league. I hate watching us play. Get rid of him.

Coombs

Clrnc wrote:
It seems like everyone is on the same page of understanding md post except you coombs. And I wonder what other angle of malaise you are looking at.

Mirth is spot on. Football don't wait for anyone, we need to stop having the ridiculous idea that it takes 2 to 3 years to get success and focus on the present.

I meant the atmosphere of the club. Morale, etc. Not results.

As for the rest, I've no idea what it translates to in the real world.

goon

Given the amount of change at management level in recent years and the level of uncertainly around Arteta and Edu, it's hard to argue there isn't a malaise around the direction of the club in general, even setting aside current results and fan sentiment.

The one area where you could argue we've found our way out of it is probably the squad itself which looks pretty fresh, young and full of potential.

AAStyle

Patent mediocrity instead of uncertainty would be a more just term

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
Mirth is spot on. Football don't wait for anyone, we need to stop having the ridiculous idea that it takes 2 to 3 years to get success and focus on the present.

I could accept 2 or 3 years to get back into the CL if I could see the manager taking us in that direction rather than moving us further away from it. Some things do take time but that doesn't require going backwards now. Building should be a process of gradual improvement, so far all I see is regression.

Captain

At this point, it's probably more difficult to hire someone worse than the opposite. Time to get in the bin.

Ricky1985

Monday night was terrible. I don't think it's exaggerating to say that.

I'm okay giving Arteta until christmas, provided we start seeing a steady improvement. If we are seeing the same sort of disjointed performance from the XI (or close to it) which featured last night in a month then it will be time for the club to accept the man's not up to it.

Like it or not, this is a process, the team is very young, and all the new players have to find their roles and partnerships need time to form in the team.

But, we've got to start seeing more energy, more aggression, more combination play, more attacking threat and generally more of a game-plan.

The midfield, in particular, is a complete mess and is the area that most needs to come together quickly. We're even managing to make Partey look bad atm ffs! I think Ødegaard and Smith Rowe can work in there (though I do like ESR on the left too), but they need to figure it out quickly and Arteta is obviously a part of that.

Don Pacifico

I think that's fair. We need to see more positive indicators than we are seeing right now and if not, then the choice is obvious.

My one note of caution, which frustratingly the board have seemingly mucked up twice now, is laying the groundwork for finding a new manager in advance of sacking the current one. We need to strategically go after the right choice rather than make the best of what personnel are available.

flobaba

Would “strategically” laying the groundwork include sounding out potential replacements? And if so, how soon should we be (have been) doing that?

We don’t have Newcastle money where we know we can just slap any available or interested manager with cash. We have to understand that we are likely to get rejected by a few managers, or miss out on some of our targets.

My point is we have to be proactive and I guess pretty transparent about this whole situation.

If we are saying let’s give him two months to save his coaching career here, then we can’t merely be limping along or have just “okay” results in that time frame - we have to be absolutely certain that keeping him will end up being the correct decision, and that would imply a significant improvement in our form and results.

I don’t see it.

Captain

Why would he need another 10 weeks to show he isn't up for it?

He is and has been terrible for long enough.

FEBravo

Captain wrote:
Why would he need another 10 weeks to show he isn't up for it?

He is and has been terrible for long enough.

this

QuincyAbeyie

It's telling that most of the arguments to keep him aren't what he's done well so far, but rather that there's still a chance that he will come good.

Ricky1985

I think what he has done well is assemble a potentially good team - most of the parts are there now, in my opinion. The next step is moulding them into a good team, that plays entertaining, winning football - on this part, he has everything to prove.

Klaus

At the end of the day, if we had gotten Potter or someone like him four years ago, two years ago, or even one year ago, we would be so much better off right now than we are at the moment.

There are only so many times you can waste a financial and sporting advantage by backing the wrong man and then stubbornly doubling down when they show you that they're utterly ordinary.

Klaus

I'd add that no one starts to suddenly play entertaining football, and certainly not after two years. You either do it or you don't. It's a philosophy, not a function of quality. We have the most boring manager in the league and that's not going to change regardless of how much money he has.

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