Arsenal exits Jan 2022: Page 10 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal exits Jan 2022

Claudius

Cevallos is an incredibly hard worker. Tackling and intercepting. He and Partey would be interesting.

On Bissouma, part of the assumption is that you are pushing your front four and fullbacks high.

goon

We do that anyway though don't we? Tierney is basically a winger while Hector pushes up plenty too. I feel like the bigger issue is we don't get the ball to those attackers, at least not quick enough and in places where it hurts.

Gazza M

getting bissouma would mean we'd have to get a very creative player to play in front of him, and arguably 1 more highly creative wide player. there's some upside in having 2 units as a double pivot especially in England, but it wouldn't be the first way I'd skin this cat. I can see arteta liking it because of the emphasis he has on fullbacks playing high

Coombs

Ray wrote:
I don’t think attack minded CMs are what we should be building on. We need two way players, central midfielders that can defend and technically / physically dribble/carry the ball forward with the vision to pass. Bissouma ticks those boxes and is PL ready. Kind of like when we signed Arteta.

What is a two way player? Someone who never scores or assists? Robust, hard-running, technical players who have speed and vision should be the goal, not grafters who offer no threat or entertainment. There seems to be a serious mental block in Arsenal fans because of Ozil or the shrimpy AM years with Wenger. Being an attacking player doesn't mean you have to sacrifice the rest of the game. A couple of squad players can serve the purpose of being limited CMs who have no abilities other than to get the ball and give it to ESR, and we already have Elneny.

Ricky1985

I hear what you're saying, Coombs, but there is nothing wrong with quality options. And Bussouma is that. He is a ball-winning machine, and he's very adept at evading pressure and is a quick passer too. Elneny is none of those things. Neither are any of our other midfielders not named Thomas Partey.

If we can buy him for a reasonable amount, then do it. We need some midfielders in the squad once we jettison Xhaka, Ceballos and Elneny. And we can still sign a creative midfielder to work with, or some instances, instead of, Smith Rowe.

Claudius

Has anybody been watching Guendouzi’s games?

Coombs

Ricky1985 wrote:
I We need some midfielders in the squad once we jettison Xhaka, Ceballos and Elneny. And we can still sign a creative midfielder to work with, or some instances, instead of, Smith Rowe.

This is where it makes sense to me, but what if Xhaka and co run down their deals? We can't keep making the same mistakes. Buy Laca then Auba, buy Partey then Bissouma? It's fine if we didn't have massive weakness in other areas.

Qwiss

Coombs wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
I We need some midfielders in the squad once we jettison Xhaka, Ceballos and Elneny. And we can still sign a creative midfielder to work with, or some instances, instead of, Smith Rowe.

This is where it makes sense to me, but what if Xhaka and co run down their deals? We can't keep making the same mistakes. Buy Laca then Auba, buy Partey then Bissouma? It's fine if we didn't have massive weakness in other areas.

Do we have an area weaker then central midfield? If so I don't see it.

Anzac

Posted in the Houseboat thread we are 'linked' to a Bissouma alternative in Enok Mwepu from RB Salzburg.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Cevallos is an incredibly hard worker. Tackling and intercepting. He and Partey would be interesting.

On Bissouma, part of the assumption is that you are pushing your front four and fullbacks high.

He may not be as athletic as preferred in terms of pace & ability to recover, but if converted to play as the deeper playmaking role next to Partey as B2B then I think it would be worth doing.

Anzac

Gazza M wrote:
getting bissouma would mean we'd have to get a very creative player to play in front of him, and arguably 1 more highly creative wide player. there's some upside in having 2 units as a double pivot especially in England, but it wouldn't be the first way I'd skin this cat. I can see arteta liking it because of the emphasis he has on fullbacks playing high

Not only provides power in the middle and cover to both flanks at the same time, it also retains that 'magic square' core with the CBs and CMDs.

Coombs

Qwiss! wrote:
Coombs wrote:
This is where it makes sense to me, but what if Xhaka and co run down their deals? We can't keep making the same mistakes. Buy Laca then Auba, buy Partey then Bissouma? It's fine if we didn't have massive weakness in other areas.

Do we have an area weaker then central midfield? If so I don't see it.

No, that's our weakest area along with CF. Bissouma solves none of our weaknesses in central midfield other than depth for Partey (arguably).

Coombs

Obviously I could be totally wrong about Bissouma and about what I think Arteta wants long-term for the midfield. I just see Xhaka and Elneny as totally redundant as it is, and I feel having more players like Smith-Rowe on the pitch would make more sense than more players like Partey. That doesn't mean I don't think they should be strong, fast, and capable of making a tackle. I have no interest in seeing an old school AM like Ozil or Riquelme come in.

Claudius

Do you see Partey as the DM, Coombs?

Klaus

Have to say I don't think Bissouma and Partey are similar at all. When was the last time Partey was used as a DM? It seems to have become part of his reputation but I can't think of any point in recent memory where I've seen him play like one. He's either been deployed as a fullback or, in latter years, as a more dynamic type of midfielder, sort of like Essien.

I'm sure you could use him any which way depending on what the rest of the squad looks like, but asking why you need Bissouma when you've got Partey is a bit like asking why you'd want a Gilberto when you have Vieira. Why wouldn't you want both, especially if you're playing 4-3-3 with someone like Smith-Rowe (who is very much in the Özil mold) in the hole? That point is not limited to Bissouma by the way; I think he looks very interesting but I haven't seen enough of him to say for sure. I think you need someone of that type in a modern midfield though, which to me only leaves Elneny in the current squad. Xhaka isn't mobile enough and we don't have any other defensive midfielders. I don't know if getting a midfielder to replace them both should be our top priority, but I do think it's a priority.

goon

I want someone to free Partey to be more of a box to box, but it needs to be someone really good on the ball, someone who can feed balls quickly into the attacking third wide, centrally and any which way. Alternatively it could be more creative time who can work in tandem with Partey. I just don't fancy a pure ball winner, and whatever else he might be ok at, that's all Bissouma is from what I've seen.

But who knows, there's different ways to skin a cat.

Anzac

goon wrote:
ohboy!!! wrote:
Partey and Bissouma would be very dynamic. They would be the most athletic midfield we would have had in year's.

It would help to free Partey a bit, and give a very stable base to whichever attacking CM we chose.

Also, we could afford an injury or suspension to one, and providing the other is fit, still have a real presence in midfield. It is boring, but between the defence and midfield we may well be building the old fashion way. I for one would be happy with Bissouma.

It's one way to go for sure, just feels very Mourinhoish.

I just don't see that as something we've missed, especially in the games I've mentioned. Give me someone who can progress play and move the ball quickly, I don't really care what type. You talk about cover for Partey, it's not his ball winning ability I've missed, it's his ability to penetrate.

Bissouma is 100% another Hojbjerg type, not sure how's he's gotten a rep for being anything other than passable on the ball.

I think this is the key in regards to our approach regarding Partey's position and role.

I don't think he is intended to be our DM or DLP such as the likes of Gilberto/Pettit or Arteta himself. That said I have no doubt Partey is more than capable of doing so as seen at Atletico.
I do not think the intent is to build a defensive CM twin pivot akin to that seen at TH. Rather I suspect the intent in the 4231 is to rebuild the team/midfield based more towards The Highbury Years having pace and athleticism. IMO Partey is intended to be our 'new' PV4 , and the question regarding his potential partner is who is capable of enabling him to become that. Don't forget Partey plays almost as a #10 for Ghana and plays more in the opposition half/final 3rd as in midfield as DM/DLP.

IMO this is why we are looking at more defensive/ball winner types as opposed to perhaps more creative types as we don't NEED a creative playmaker in midfield as much as we NEED to improve our capability to advance the ball to improve our transition. IF we sign the likes of Bissouma/Mwepu we retain defensive stability whilst increasing our athleticism & power, and we enable Partey to play as he does for Ghana rather than seen at Atletico.

The potential downside being there is no direct cover for ESR as CAM, however IF Arteta was to switch to an inverted 3 man midfield then the likes of ESR, Ceballos and Saka could all play that 3rd man creative role from CMA alongside Partey and ahead of the likes of Bissouma/Mwepu.

Klaus

goon wrote:
I want someone to free Partey to be more of a box to box, but it needs to be someone really good on the ball, someone who can feed balls quickly into the attacking third wide, centrally and any which way. Alternatively it could be more creative time who can work in tandem with Partey. I just don't fancy a pure ball winner, and whatever else he might be ok at, that's all Bissouma is from what I've seen.

But who knows, there's different ways to skin a cat.

A Fernandinho player would be my ideal signing probably, but they're rare as unicorns.

goon

Exactly who I had in mind. I wouldn't mind a Fabinho either.

Claudius

I think we would all love Fabinho or Fernandinho.

As this is not a dream land, Bisssouma will do in the midfield 3 Klaus described. Will be well balanced. Skill and power.

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