jones wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
Sorry mate, I don't agree with what you're saying. Xhaka and Mustafi didn't turn to shit, they always were. And if you watched them every week, as closely as you watch Arsenal, I think you couldn't have failed to spot that (because obviouly you know a player). It's a reverse situation of someone like Ramsdale - he was supposed to be shit, but had we watched him for his previous teams as closely as we do now, we would had known better.
Wenger should have known better, and the analytics team should hang their heads over it. Even moreso if it was more their signing than Wenger's.
Cheers for the compliment mate but I'm telling you I watched plenty enough of them and I won't change my assessment just because the end result didn't turn out that way. We'll have to agree to disagree here, for me anyway I know football doesn't work this way that if you're talented you make it and if you don't make it it's because you weren't talented enough, that's a ridiculous simplification. The developmental curve of a player is way too complex and subject to far too many factors to be able to have it dumbed down like that.
I agree that a million different things can go wrong in a player's development. But I think intelligence is an underrated, and largely uncoachable, factor in the success of any sports person. And I think in both cases these guys are plain dumb on a football pitch, and there's no getting around that.
It's like when Klaus says about Guendouzi that he can't receive a ball and turn because he doesn't know what's around him. That shouldn't be hard to teach, and I'm sure many coaches have tried, but ultimately, to this point, he just doesn't get it, can't do it or doesn't see the value in it. And Xhaka has made it to nearly 30 years old and still has that as a gaping hole in his game as a holding midfielder. And it's because he's thick (in terms of football) - big personality, very driven, trains hard... but thick. He just doesn't get it, and so he never improves that which is a big limiting factor in his ability to compete at the highest level. And Guendouzi will probably be the same.
So, I suppose what I'm saying about technical or physical flaws being barriers to the very elite level isn't true because with application, hard work and adaptation they can be overcome. And so a young player, Nkunku, for example, as he was mentioned in another thread, can make great strides forward because he improves a crucial part of his game, or someone like Vinicius with his improved finishing this season. But I think it requires an intelligence to analyse and improve one's self that Mustafi and Xhaka, after years and years of watching their every move, do not possess.
I think I would have seen that if I watched them regularly with a close eye when they were at BMG and Valencia respectively. But in truth, I only really watch Arsenal players, superstar talents I am excited about, and players seriously linked with Arsenal (the last two categories normally go together in my head even if not in reality!), so my casual viewing maybe wouldn't have sniffed them out.
