Arsenal @ Liverpool | Mon 28 Sep 8pm | Mac n' cheese, chicken wings: Page 33 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal @ Liverpool | Mon 28 Sep 8pm | Mac n' cheese, chicken wings

Doc

We gain nothing from playing 3 midfielders with the current players we have... Bring in the required talent or stick to current setup is my view.. Crtically though it will need to be Saka who plays the highbrid LWB role as he is the most creative outlet we have right now.

Qwiss

banduan wrote:
Speaking of playing out the back, the commentators were ruing again how we kept trying to do it even though we looked uncomfortable, but the second half showed why. It's our game plan to create rapid transitions in play similar to how our goal came about and is a crucial part of Tet's team identity. So it's a little concerning that Leno's role in playing out the back isn't as polished as Emi's appeared to be.

I don't think it was down to Leno really. He's long kicking isn't great but his short distribution is normally fine. We had a whole different set up for playing out from the back. Elneny dropped really deep with Xhaka even slightly deeper than usual and Tierney was pulling out to really weird wide positions for kick outs that he doesn't usually. We got completely trapped because no one was ahead of the ball. Willian came into midfield to try and receive that ball but it didn't really work and screwed up the front line then. We were way too deep for our kick outs and it meant we got penned in. Arteta seemed to think dropping Elneny right into the back would make it easier to escape the press but really it just meant we couldn't get out to midfield.

goon

Yeah the tactic with Elneny was odd. You often had players too close to each other too, could have thrown a blanket over Leno, Holding, Luiz and Elneny at times. I think what Arteta was alluding to post match is the fact that often we passed it really short rather than chipping it over f

I think we tried to adapt to just how aggressively Liverpool press but it didn't work in practice. It took a while for the players to get used to our patters for playing out the back which we've now gotten good at, so not sure how wise it was to try something new in a game like that.

I think another issue though, just like against West Ham, is just how bad some of the passes were. Tierney who looked so good and so calm in the past was all over the place on the ball, Auba wasn't even making those runs in behind, Xhaka was struggling, AMN couldn't do anything right etc. The pressure from Liverpool obviously got to them but the spaces were there to exploit. If you're going to play out the back you need to do it with confidence.

Qwiss

AMN couldn't do anything right because he was being asked to play out of very difficult pressure on his bad foot, it was so obvious at time. When he was trying to clear it long he was shanking it out of play or hitting it straight to them, there wasn't the sort of accuracy you need and thats not his fault.

Mirth

Fair point, the main reason AMN had some success at left back is because he played deep and stopped wingers from cutting in. On Monday we asked him to play further up and it all went wrong. It's great that Saka isn't being thrown into the deep end like Wenger would but ultimately we need to stop getting too het up about the formation and just focus on having the best footballers on the pitch. Things will fall in place around that and if Arteta prioritises his system over the players then he'll go down the same route as Emery.

Captain

I would say the main reason is because he has been clever in the timing of his movements and has the attributes of a centre-mid.

Saka played too high up in that role and him and Willian stifled the attack without adding much in the way of solidarity.

Captain

End of the day, Liverpool bossed us tactically, technically, mentally and any other way you can view the game.

speedy

Captain wrote:
End of the day, Liverpool bossed us tactically, technically, mentally and any other way you can view the game.

Yea their players are twice as good and coaching wise they're years further ahead.

Anzac

Captain wrote:
End of the day, Liverpool bossed us tactically, technically, mentally and any other way you can view the game.

You can add physically to that list as seen by Mane's early efforts on both Bellerin and Tierney, and the impact of that when Salah out muscled Tierney leading to Sane's tap in for their equaliser with no one picking him up at the back post.

banduan

goon wrote:
Yeah the tactic with Elneny was odd. You often had players too close to each other too, could have thrown a blanket over Leno, Holding, Luiz and Elneny at times. I think what Arteta was alluding to post match is the fact that often we passed it really short rather than chipping it over f

Luiz and Holding are supposed to flank the keeper in the box. Tierney would go up the left wing and Bellerin the right. Xhaka and Elneny are in front of their respective CB. This forms 2 triangles each side of the keeper giving him three options to play it out every time. The CBs have 2-3 depending on the opposition positioning and if Tierney or Bellerin receive we immediately have an out.

The problem was instead of quickly shifting the ball Leno would dawdle over it to try and lure the forward in. He'd also struggle to send the ball wide with a chip without hitting it out of bounds. I'm hoping this is just because Leno is rusty, because we've seen him handle it before.

AMN is supposed to be a bit further up in CM during this transition phase, with Laca or Willian alongside him and the remaining 2 as our attacking threats.

goon

Nah it's not just Leno, look at the positioning of the centre backs and centre mids in this game vs how it normally is. It's very different, the options were much shorter, Tierney was much deeper.

speedy

goon wrote:
Nah it's not just Leno, look at the positioning of the centre backs and centre mids in this game vs how it normally is. It's very different, the options were much shorter, Tierney was much deeper.

We tried something different, in the games like this where you're very unlikely to win(they've not lost at home in 50+games) rolling the dice makes more sense because you've got less to loose.

banduan

goon wrote:
Nah it's not just Leno, look at the positioning of the centre backs and centre mids in this game vs how it normally is. It's very different, the options were much shorter, Tierney was much deeper.

it's possible they were not in optimal positions, I'd have to rewatch. I remember Holding being way too close. The CMs are supposed to be deep tho.

goon

Yeah, they're normally positioned just outside the area, Xhaka was pretty much where he usually is but Elneny was practically on the goal line.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Yeah, they're normally positioned just outside the area, Xhaka was pretty much where he usually is but Elneny was practically on the goal line.

Exactly. Elneny dropped right in and Tierney moved way out to the corner.

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