goon wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly that our squad is already a lot better than most give it credit for, but we absolutely need to fix the midfield. It was bad enough last year, now we’re losing Torreira and Douzi (in spirit at the very least). Determined for us to play with a conventional back 4 more often than not, and clearly that’s not going to happen with Arteta with the midfielders we currently have on the books.

Torreira and Douzi were part of what made the midfield so dysfunctional in my opinion. In the opposite end of the scale I like how rejuvenated Elneny looks. MK Dons, Liverpool and Fulham were 8/10 performances from him. Yes, it's just a few games and some of them were in off-season, but they're starting to add up quickly. I fully expect him to have another good performance against West Ham tomorrow. If a new signing had played like he does right now people would be talking about it a lot more.

I realise that works the opposite way around too: the reason people aren't talking up Elneny is probably because he's been lukewarm in the past, but I always thought he was a good player and the only real alternative we have to Xhaka on any level within the club. I'm not surprised he works well in a double pivot role under Arteta.

Happy to have Elneny in there as cover and as an option but it’s nowhere near enough, either in terms of numbers or quality. We need at least one of those two if we want to be serious about getting top four and winning things.

Klaus wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:

What do you mean by "we should just go to war with what we have"? There's no harm in trying to sign better players. Best case we get them, worst case we do what you say - go to war with what we have.

No, I think we should be conservative with what we spend, and how we spend it. Like I said, there's room for a good player or two, but we should also be mindful that there might be better opportunities next summer if we don't burn all our resources now just for the sake of appeasing the fans with signings. We can't really afford to make another Pepé signing for a second summer in a row, for instance. That's exactly the kind of reactive stuff we have to move away from.

Neither Pépé nor Aouar would be reactive signings. They’re both addressing key issues with the squad. Pepe’s ridiculous price is a sunk cost. He needs to ignore it as well and step up now. Fact is we went out this summer and got another player for that position because we desperately need creativity and goals from wide. Now we need to replace all the midget mids we lost with Aouar to better link up our attack through the middle

goon wrote:

Happy to have Elneny in there as cover and as an option but it’s nowhere near enough, either in terms of numbers or quality. We need at least one of those two if we want to be serious about getting top four and winning things.

Yep, ideally we'll sign someone who's a little more creative to add to the bunch. We only play with two midfielders though, plus Maitland-Niles who folds in centrally when we transition into attack. Xhaka, Dani, Elneny and Willock is a better set of midfielders than we had for most of last season, because they've all improved. Dani in particular has had his season to bed in. Both he and Xhaka seem to be twice the players they were under Emery. There's still room for someone like Aouar, but dealing with Lyon is difficult at the best of times.

Agreed re Elneny's resurgence, and I suspect it has had an impact in determining who/the type of CM that is the higher priority in Partey v Aouar, in either a 2 CM double pivot or in a midfield 3.

The main criticism of him used to be about a lack of progressive passing, but in the games since his return v both LFC and Fulham this no longer appears to be an issue.

Klaus wrote:
goon wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly that our squad is already a lot better than most give it credit for, but we absolutely need to fix the midfield. It was bad enough last year, now we’re losing Torreira and Douzi (in spirit at the very least). Determined for us to play with a conventional back 4 more often than not, and clearly that’s not going to happen with Arteta with the midfielders we currently have on the books.

Torreira and Douzi were part of what made the midfield so dysfunctional in my opinion. In the opposite end of the scale I like how rejuvenated Elneny looks. MK Dons, Liverpool and Fulham were 8/10 performances from him. Yes, it's just a few games and some of them were in off-season, but they're starting to add up quickly. I fully expect him to have another good performance against West Ham tomorrow. If a new signing had played like he does right now people would be talking about it a lot more.

I realise that works the opposite way around too: the reason people aren't talking up Elneny is probably because he's been lukewarm in the past, but I always thought he was a good player and the only real alternative we have to Xhaka on any level within the club. I'm not surprised he works well in a double pivot role under Arteta.

Elneny is at best mediocre. If he plays significant minutes this year, we won't finish higher than 6th. Elneny isn't spectacularly awful, but he offers very little "added value". He can't really pass, he doesn't drive past players, he doesn't really press and win the ball. He's at best a mid-table midfielder. 

Kel, we need to stop praising these central midfielders on our books. A good benchmark is Fabinho. Despite Henderson getting all the praise, this guy is a stud. He’s near the top across Europe for interceptions and tackles. And he’s extremely safe with the ball with high passing and low interceptions. He’s exactly what you want in a DM. Someone like Thiago will make him more effective as he’s just more progressive with the ball and gets to the box more often. Our guys aren’t exceptional. They’re just mediocre to good, with significant weaknesses.

Interestingly, we will still need someone else with Partey. Where Partey ranks highly is getting the ball upfield. He doesn’t rank highly in actually recovering it like Fabinho. So Partey should actually be a Ceballos alternative next to Aouar, with another more tenacious player next to him.

I have been saying all this window, that really we need three midfielders.

Someone like Sangare who does the dirty work, while adding mobility and real physicality. Partey is similar but more offensive, drive with the ball more.

Both would be sensational.

Aouar going forward would add creativity, and along with Ceballos would give us the platform to retain and dominate possession.

I think we will be surprised. I see more than two more players coming in.

I think last night confirmed we need both Partey and Aouar. We should be able to do it if we get the players we want to sell out the door.

Will be a long three weeks.

The more I think about it, I think we need a Xhaka replacement more than we need Partey - Matheus Henrique ideally or Roca or someone of that ilk. Someone who can dictate play from deep and keep the shape ticking.

Xhaka was awful last night, but his partner Ceballos was average as well until he improved in the 2nd half.

Overall our team was very off in terms of passing.

But one thing that's obvious, we are still lacking in creativity. Aouar or whoever is much more important than a pivot in my opinion.

With two more penetrative midfielders alongside him I think Xhaka will suffice for another season.

Tambourine Man wrote:

I think last night confirmed we need both Partey and Aouar. We should be able to do it if we get the players we want to sell out the door.

Will be a long three weeks.

Two weeks from Monday. We will only get 1 CM beacuse we won't be able to move players fast enough or at the price we want. I think we will only end up selling Torreira in the last few days of the window at a cut price. Shame really, I think 2 new CM can get us Top 4 but we will just miss out with just the one.

Tambourine Man wrote:

I think last night confirmed we need both Partey and Aouar. We should be able to do it if we get the players we want to sell out the door.

Will be a long three weeks.

Yep at least two.

I think we should be aiming for more. 

HomeSteak wrote:
Tambourine Man wrote:

I think last night confirmed we need both Partey and Aouar. We should be able to do it if we get the players we want to sell out the door.

Will be a long three weeks.

Two weeks from Monday. We will only get 1 CM beacuse we won't be able to move players fast enough or at the price we want. I think we will only end up selling Torreira in the last few days of the window at a cut price. Shame really, I think 2 new CM can get us Top 4 but we will just miss out with just the one.

I think we can get two, maybe not the two we all think (Aouar and Partey).

I think that we will see things heating up, and there will be some unexpected comings and goings. 

Will a team decide to pay £25-30Mil for Guendouzi? Will an Italian or Spanish team decide on Torreira?

Also we really need to get rid of the Kolasinac’s and Mustafi’s etc 

Addition by subtraction 

HomeSteak wrote:
Tambourine Man wrote:

I think last night confirmed we need both Partey and Aouar. We should be able to do it if we get the players we want to sell out the door.

Will be a long three weeks.

Two weeks from Monday. We will only get 1 CM beacuse we won't be able to move players fast enough or at the price we want. I think we will only end up selling Torreira in the last few days of the window at a cut price. Shame really, I think 2 new CM can get us Top 4 but we will just miss out with just the one.

Fuck, you're right. Two weeks exactly from Monday. It's going to be frantic.

Need to get our CMs done this week. I think our sales will follow as other clubs will be getting more desperate as the end of the window approaches.

Would love to shift Laca and make a move for a CF as well.

Lacas tone and the way Arteta has been talking about him does make me suspicious that he could be on his way out.

There’s so much work to be done we need to be comfortable with this being a long term project. At least one scam is necessary though. And we need to have a plan for another CM and Laca within the next 2 windows. Hopefully, we get some good loans for some of the kids. Watching Bellingham and Reyna this morning makes me think that Nelson is wasting his time here. Should ask for a loan at a team like Leverkusen etc. or even something with buyback