Aubameyang signs new long-term contract: Page 38 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Aubameyang signs new long-term contract

banduan

Big Willie wrote:
banduan wrote:
I knew even a good team goal would be discounted to be just individual brilliance bailing the team out. This is kind of reasoning would downplay most good goals scored in the league.

You can think whatever you want to think Bandy, no one has a gun to your head over your opinions. For me, if this was a AW team where it is our bread and butter then I'd be willing to credit the manager with giving the players the instructions to play in zone 14 with quick interchanging and passing. Can't credit Arteta for those types of goals because it's just not the type of game he's trying to promote. Our football under him hardly ever goes through zone 14 by instruction and its why we our heat maps are always in a semi circle going from the wing, back towards the centre circle and back the other way.

Did you seriously use a long-winded example of us essentially attacking conservatively while defending a 2-0 lead?

If you re-watch the first half you will see numerous situations where we try to play the ball through the middle. The fact is though Newcastle were set up to flood the centre while ensuring there was always a CM checking Saka and ESR. The two main ways we were countering this is with passes from CM to the box (which is somehow derided now?) and quick plays releasing the winger to the byline in the box for either a cutback or shooting chance. The reason teams let us use the wings this way is because we progress the ball so slowly and movement so poor it rarely comes to hurt them, hence the cup shape formation.

It is not the first time we see the routine that led to the first goal. We do it enough times just without the cutting edge. We see KT coming in to support the attack enough times in the exact same way Nuno did for that goal. It's also a goal coming in via wing play which is apparently is an Arteta trademark. A goal like the second I would easily put down as a moment of individual brilliance, but goals like the first are worked on in training and credit should go to the manager as much as the players executing it.

Big Willie

banduan wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
You can think whatever you want to think Bandy, no one has a gun to your head over your opinions. For me, if this was a AW team where it is our bread and butter then I'd be willing to credit the manager with giving the players the instructions to play in zone 14 with quick interchanging and passing. Can't credit Arteta for those types of goals because it's just not the type of game he's trying to promote. Our football under him hardly ever goes through zone 14 by instruction and its why we our heat maps are always in a semi circle going from the wing, back towards the centre circle and back the other way.

Did you seriously use a long-winded example of us essentially attacking conservatively while defending a 2-0 lead?

If you re-watch the first half you will see numerous situations where we try to play the ball through the middle. The fact is though Newcastle were set up to flood the centre while ensuring there was always a CM checking Saka and ESR. The two main ways we were countering this is with passes from CM to the box (which is somehow derided now?) and quick plays releasing the winger to the byline in the box for either a cutback or shooting chance. The reason teams let us use the wings this way is because we progress the ball so slowly and movement so poor it rarely comes to hurt them, hence the cup shape formation.

It is not the first time we see the routine that led to the first goal. We do it enough times just without the cutting edge. We see KT coming in to support the attack enough times in the exact same way Nuno did for that goal. It's also a goal coming in via wing play which is apparently is an Arteta trademark. A goal like the second I would easily put down as a moment of individual brilliance, but goals like the first are worked on in training and credit should go to the manager as much as the players executing it.

That was an example, one of many I could pick through this game and many of the others I've had the pleasure of watching since Arteta has taken over. If you want to ignore it all then it's up to you.

If you believe we attack the centre, rather than funneling a huge majority of our football to the wings after some slow buildup play, then I guess we are watching two different teams at this point. All I see is a bunch of passwes in the shape of the dreaded horeshoe of doom, which gives defences time to settle into their defensive shapes. We don't attack with nearly enough pace or intent to really hurt teams, as it is a risky tactic if you get caught. It is what it is. For me at least. Fair play if you think we are being coached otherwise.

Doc

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/13/Statistics/England-Arsenal
https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/15/Statistics/England-Chelsea
https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/167/Statistics/England-Manchester-City
https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/26/Statistics/England-Liverpool

Quality is definitely worse through the middle, so are they players.

Qwiss

awooga83 wrote:
I think it's difficult to really judge Auba because we are such a poor attacking side, we don't create enough and Auba has never been a 1 chance 1 goal kind of player but to be fair there aren't many decent attacking players that are Salah will often have numerous chances in a match the difference is Liverpool will create that many for him.

I think regardless who we have up top playing as we are now any striker will struggle we are still to ineffective and scared for me in the attacking part of the team.

Completely agree. We need a striker next summer due to Aubas age and other players leaving but its magical thinking to expect this striker to solve all our issues. People say things like "we need a striker who can do a bit of everything" that alone should tell you its an impossible ask for whoever comes in unless we drastically change the way we attack.

jones

Exactly. Look how many teams there are in the league and in Europe with strikers up front who are worse in every conceivable metric than Auba who still attack much better than we do. Fucking Brighton look much more fluid in the final third than we do, yet criticising Auba who's scored loads his whole life is fair game and saying it's the complete void in attacking patterns and movement is somehow unfairly not giving Arteta enough credit. Chelsea are top of the league with Werner ffs.

Burnwinter

Thought it was kinda interesting that Arteta acknowledged the deficiencies of our attacking play in his overall post-match comments after Newcastle, and implied (truthfully or otherwise) that Saka's goal resulted from some refinements to instructions during the match.

Depending on how you look at it he's either covering up for himself, or indicating a willingness to learn.

goon

There's definitely some refinement required. Hopefully the players themselves will pick up on what's required the more they play with each other in a settle system. It was notable how often Saka and Odegaard were getting in each others way and moving independently of each other. Can't help but feel if Ode had been playing the last few games they probably would have had a better understanding by now.

I think Laca was necessary for a couple of games just to get the engine going by Odegaard should absolutely start virtually every game now so that he and the players around him know how to bounce off each other.

Big Willie

We need to keep Saka and ESR as close to each other as possible. Those two va e real chemistry and can produce some magic when they link up with each other. A bit disappointed they play on opposite sides of the pitch these days.

banduan

Burnwinter wrote:
Thought it was kinda interesting that Arteta acknowledged the deficiencies of our attacking play in his overall post-match comments after Newcastle, and implied (truthfully or otherwise) that Saka's goal resulted from some refinements to instructions during the match.

Depending on how you look at it he's either covering up for himself, or indicating a willingness to learn.

was a simple enough change I thought. He saw what happened when Saka drifted left in the first half and asked Saka to keep doing it.

He probably also told Nuno to not be daft and shoot every single time.

Gazza M

Qwiss! wrote:
Gazza M wrote:
agree with willie tbh. all our creativity largely stemmed from fullback play, particularly the free-wheeling improv of tavares. both goals were a result of fullbacks being the main creative forces behind the move. it worked out OK yesterday but to be so reliant on thr fullbacks makes us fairly one dimensional

Its fine if you do it well consistently. Liverpool and City rely heavily on the creativity of TAA and Cancelo for instance. The problem with it from an Arsenal perspective is that next week I don't expect Tomi to get the same level of freedom so what then?

city and liverpool have multiple other attack vectors as well. apart from some individual brilliance from saka or esr, we don't have much else going other than fullbacks fullbacking. I had hoped odegaard would knit things together a bit more but his form has been rough to say the least

Coombs

Individual brilliance is always necessary. I hate when that's a stick to beat any manager with. We need more of that from Saka and Co, not less.

goon

Yeah, I think people would be surprised how much individual brilliance and quality is involved a lot of goals from Liverpool and City. It's just taken for granted because you see it every game.

We need to create more opportunities for our guys to display their quality for sure, but they also need to show it more consistently.

Clrnc

You guys are misinterpreting Gazza words. He said individual brilliance is mostly what we have and nothing else.

The other clubs constantly dominate opponents and create chance after chance. He didn't say it isn't necessary.

Coombs

They do that in large part due to this "individual brilliance" though. I'm not saying we can't be better coached, but creating chances due to individual actions is what the coach needs to get more of, not less. I don't think there is such a thing as a run-of-the-mill chance.

Clrnc

Coombs wrote:
They do that in large part due to this "individual brilliance" though.

Can't agree with this. Teams are successful in large part due to the coach structuring them into a unit, not in a large part due to individual brilliance. Otherwise top teams like Barca, Madrid, Juventus, Bayern wouldn't have failed due to below average coaches.

Klaus

We have the individual ability to create goal chances. Our issue is, and has always been, that it's pretty much all we have. The numbers this season tell the same story as last season, which told the same story as the season before.

Looking at the squad I really think we should create more than we do. We went through a horrid spell where we didn't have any sort of playmaker in the squad. We corrected it by developing one, and after a run of games where he had as big an impact on the team as I've seen any Arsenal player have in recent memory he immediately got pushed onto the wing where he relegated the 80 million man and our second largest goal threat to the bench. We then spent 50 million buying another playmaker, and then we don't play him. You have to ask if we're getting the most out of our attacking potential currently. There are so few paths leading towards the goal in any given game that we always end up relying on someone to convert the one good chance that befall them, or to make a big individual contribution. Football that is sustainable doesn't look like this.

flobaba

We'll be fine once we spend half a billion on new players Klaus.

Qwiss

Coombs wrote:
Individual brilliance is always necessary. I hate when that's a stick to beat any manager with. We need more of that from Saka and Co, not less.

I agree. The issue we have is that we don't give our forwards enough chances to find those brilliant moments on a regular basis and thats tactical.

flobaba

Exactly Qwiss. Genau. It's clear as day we don't get the most out of our attacking players or attacking scenarios. We must be one of the worst teams in the world at springing counterattacks or getting our center forwards one v one against the last defender, talk less of through one v one against the keeper. It's clearly poor tactics for our personnel. And while I am all in favor of dumping Auba due to his physical decline, he still has more than enough left in the tank to be a 20 goal striker in this league.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

A fundamental issue we have had for many years now is poorly weighted/timed passing and not enough movement with conviction, from enough players.

That is why we mess up so many opportunities.

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