Youth team development: Page 54 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Youth team development

Ray

speedy wrote:
Ray wrote:
Exactly, because the ones playing in those positions now are delivering because of their experience.

Thats just not understanding the weight of things. Like when people are deperate for xhaka to leave when he was our best midfielder. The first teamers might only give consistent 6/10 preformances but Flo might be 4-6/10 preformances at this stage in his development.

Like Greenwood for united 32 appearences this season and 2 goals. A shiot older player could do way better than that. And he ooozes talent.

We saw marty agaisnt united and we got absolutley murdered down that side until he was taking off. Willian come on stabolised the team despite only being here for his pension. And we got a point from the game. And hes a top talent and he'd games under his belt in brazil but he has still got a lot to learn.

We've seen jose play some average but very experianced players and win tophy after trophy by playing experiance. Like when AF played a super over the hill giggs in every big game. Or Wenger playing Yossi in every big game that season. Or Arteta falling on experiance in the big EL games. Every manager does it.

Right but they weren’t languishing 10th in the league and pretty much out of all cup competitions when they were playing the experienced guys. What’s the point in playing Xhaka, Luiz, Willian, Laca etc when they aren’t delivering now. The whole point of a transition season is your building for next season, play the youngsters let them iron out their mistakes and get experience now rather than next season.

Qwiss

Ray wrote:
speedy wrote:
Thats just not understanding the weight of things. Like when people are deperate for xhaka to leave when he was our best midfielder. The first teamers might only give consistent 6/10 preformances but Flo might be 4-6/10 preformances at this stage in his development.

Like Greenwood for united 32 appearences this season and 2 goals. A shiot older player could do way better than that. And he ooozes talent.

We saw marty agaisnt united and we got absolutley murdered down that side until he was taking off. Willian come on stabolised the team despite only being here for his pension. And we got a point from the game. And hes a top talent and he'd games under his belt in brazil but he has still got a lot to learn.

We've seen jose play some average but very experianced players and win tophy after trophy by playing experiance. Like when AF played a super over the hill giggs in every big game. Or Wenger playing Yossi in every big game that season. Or Arteta falling on experiance in the big EL games. Every manager does it.

Right but they weren’t languishing 10th in the league and pretty much out of all cup competitions when they were playing the experienced guys. What’s the point in playing Xhaka, Luiz, Willian, Laca etc when they aren’t delivering now. The whole point of a transition season is your building for next season, play the youngsters let them iron out their mistakes and get experience now rather than next season.

Yep, the experience argument seems very academic. We aren't getting consistent 6 out of 10s from the experienced players apart from maybe Xhaka. Meanwhile Saliba, Willock, AMN are all looking just as consistent out on loan.

speedy

Qwiss! wrote:
Ray wrote:
Right but they weren’t languishing 10th in the league and pretty much out of all cup competitions when they were playing the experienced guys. What’s the point in playing Xhaka, Luiz, Willian, Laca etc when they aren’t delivering now. The whole point of a transition season is your building for next season, play the youngsters let them iron out their mistakes and get experience now rather than next season.

Yep, the experience argument seems very academic. We aren't getting consistent 6 out of 10s from the experienced players apart from maybe Xhaka. Meanwhile Saliba, Willock, AMN are all looking just as consistent out on loan.

Luiz has been our best defender, xhaka has been our best midfielder and Laca has been our best striker. Thats probably why. When your in a crisis you stick with experiance as wenger always did and came back from more crisises than any other manager, as the youth players tend to crumble as the pressure gets higher.

It's easy to pretend the guy your not picking is the solution. But in reality that's rarely the case. Luiz will have a shocker people will say pick holding, holding will have a shocker and people will say why is he not starting chambers more. and if he did people would go back to wanting luiz.

speedy

Qwiss! wrote:
Ray wrote:
Right but they weren’t languishing 10th in the league and pretty much out of all cup competitions when they were playing the experienced guys. What’s the point in playing Xhaka, Luiz, Willian, Laca etc when they aren’t delivering now. The whole point of a transition season is your building for next season, play the youngsters let them iron out their mistakes and get experience now rather than next season.

Yep, the experience argument seems very academic. We aren't getting consistent 6 out of 10s from the experienced players apart from maybe Xhaka. Meanwhile Saliba, Willock, AMN are all looking just as consistent out on loan.

But Willock and AMN are playing for sides that dont want the ball. And nobody was happy when we played that way. And theyre relegation fodder teams where they'll have the confidence of being some of the most talented players their. While here they'd be tempted to pass to ODE or partey ect for them to do something. They why loans are so important to get players playing with responsibility.

Coombs

As long as Willian is starting nothing makes sense. There's just no use rationalizing anything because it's just so irrational.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Why can't we go back to Pepe-Aubameyang-Saka? It showed promise in the few times it was tried.

I'd also play ESR at 10 over the Real Madrid player if it came down to it, in such a scenario.

Ray

I wouldn't be surprised if Arteta manages to convince Odegaard to stay.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Maybe, but I still prefer ESR's attributes in this Arteta team devoid of movement.

Qwiss

speedy wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Yep, the experience argument seems very academic. We aren't getting consistent 6 out of 10s from the experienced players apart from maybe Xhaka. Meanwhile Saliba, Willock, AMN are all looking just as consistent out on loan.

Luiz has been our best defender, xhaka has been our best midfielder and Laca has been our best striker. Thats probably why. When your in a crisis you stick with experiance as wenger always did and came back from more crisises than any other manager, as the youth players tend to crumble as the pressure gets higher.

It's easy to pretend the guy your not picking is the solution. But in reality that's rarely the case. Luiz will have a shocker people will say pick holding, holding will have a shocker and people will say why is he not starting chambers more. and if he did people would go back to wanting luiz.

Luiz hasn't been close to our best defender. And Laca has been shot shy all season. Xhaka is our best mid by default because we loaned out our decent mids and kept Elneny and a loser from Real. The squad composition and who plays regularly are largely down to Arteta and he's made terrible decisions all season.

speedy

Qwiss! wrote:
speedy wrote:
Luiz has been our best defender, xhaka has been our best midfielder and Laca has been our best striker. Thats probably why. When your in a crisis you stick with experiance as wenger always did and came back from more crisises than any other manager, as the youth players tend to crumble as the pressure gets higher.

It's easy to pretend the guy your not picking is the solution. But in reality that's rarely the case. Luiz will have a shocker people will say pick holding, holding will have a shocker and people will say why is he not starting chambers more. and if he did people would go back to wanting luiz.

Luiz hasn't been close to our best defender. And Laca has been shot shy all season. Xhaka is our best mid by default because we loaned out our decent mids and kept Elneny and a loser from Real. The squad composition and who plays regularly are largely down to Arteta and he's made terrible decisions all season.

Laca is really shit but he's clearly our best striker. Most league goals and easily twice as good as Auba in everything he does apart from scoring. Carrager said Aubas West ham performance was probably the of worse performances he's seen from a prem player this year. And he's not wrong. Laca is poor he's like a 35 year old but Auba is stealing a living.

The others AMN and Willock haven't been on it at all when they played here. They've both needed the loan just like lingarrd did.

Both are playing roles they wouldn't get to play here as neither of those sides want the ball.

Rohit

speedy wrote:
and easily twice as good as Auba in everything he does apart from scoring.

😆 must be some striker this Lacazette

speedy

Rohit wrote:
speedy wrote:
and easily twice as good as Auba in everything he does apart from scoring.

😆 must be some striker this Lacazette

I certainly didn't complement laca, maybe try reading the whole thing rather than sentence fragments.

Or explain how good Auba is back to goal and linking up and competing with the CBs. Rather than generic troll post. Pop some meat on the bones of your argument. Trolling is for empty vessels/ Twitters void of negativity.

Rohit

I am no generic troll. I find some of what you post about Aubameyang nonsense. Nothing else. He's been poor and you've been going after him with proper hyberbole. Laca won't move in his dreams like Auba does on a football pitch. His movement is world class which creates passing options and space for others to move into. Laca is a grafter who currently excels at nothing. If you're not complementing Laca then you're probably dismissing what Aubameyang does even more by saying Laca is twice as good as him at everything else. You have multiple times brought up West Ham and that fact that Aubameyang left Chambers to dry. You say that again and again without possibly thinking that Aubameyang's motivational issues lie there. He shouldn't be protecting Chambers. I am not excusing his performances but it is just very easy to knock players.

Coombs

The idea that some players should only have to play exactly the game they want to is really, really bad. I don't agree with speedy for the most part on this issue, but I do not believe that Auba should just flit around the penalty box looking to score. He's got to play the whole game of football, every good player today does, there can't be any exception. I don't care if he has world class movement, when you need to play your part in the press or on the cover, you do it. If you don't want to track back, make the ball stick in the opposition third. Just standing around waiting for your teammates to sort it out is unacceptable.

Rohit

Coombs wrote:
The idea that some players should only have to play exactly the game they want to is really, really bad.

There is no such idea. Some players do earn it in a way though. I doubt Aubameyang came here to play left wing back. The club and the team needed his work ethic and he gave it along with goals that gave us respectability for 2 seasons and also a couple of trophies. His goals carried us and he scored while running up and down the left hand side. I just detest the idea that when a player scores it means he is bothered and when he doesn't it means he isn't, like there is nothing in between these states. I don't begrudge Aubameyang if he can't do it for another season. I think to put that on a new contract is harsh. I don't believe he is lazy if his energy levels when he is playing wide aren't the same. He is not playing at the same intensity and after 2 full seasons of protecting his full back may be the motivation isn't the same either. I don't see the best forwards in the world put in the kind of shift he has over the last 2 years in the defensive third. He came here as one of the best goal scorers in world football and kept up to that reputation.

Coombs wrote:
Just standing around waiting for your teammates to sort it out is unacceptable.

And personally I just don't see it this way. I don't think he has been good this season but I don't doubt his commitment. He has scored at an insane rate for a mid table side over the last 2 seasons. Lazy, worse than Laca at most things, I mean all this is just way over the top.

Coombs

I don't doubt he is committed, and I don't think he's lazy. I think he has an inconsistent attitude and when things are bad he doesn't do his part to pull us out of it. I'd still start him most games, but not to roam the opposition's back line. Look how hard Cavani worked against Spuds today. He was winning the ball deep on the left side of midfield, playing it out in a few triangles, and sprinting into the box to get on the end of things. Everyone has to do it.

If Auba doesn't want to play left wing back, then he has to take some responsibility and help bring the ball up the field. Ideas like "service" and "tracking back" are desperately outdated. It's just football.

Rohit

I can't refute any of that. I agree. However, position matters. If Cavani has to run up and down the wing for 2 seasons he won't be happy. He will do it for the team in games but at some point he will not have the same motivation. I know you're only using him as a stray example but didn't he have tension at PSG for this very reason?

I see Aubameyang show way more energy when he is up front this season. He presses from the front and he drops back on occasions. I know he offers little physicality but he is still a potent weapon if the team can balanced to his strengths.

Coombs

He's been happy enough on the wing his entire Arsenal career. What position you play should have nothing to do with you attitude and application.

lorddulaarsenal

Kids bringing the sawce

No wonder Auba changed his hair to honour him

Meatwad

some impressive talent coming through outside of saka of course. azeez, balogun, taylor-hart, hutchinson, monlouis.

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