Clrnc wrote:

Rohit wrote:

We aren't giving up (m)any clear cut chances. We are making it hard and it isn't pretty but we haven't looked this comfortable before with men behind the ball. Whatever Arteta is doing in training is working.

While watching it, I was thinking there's a clear structure and pattern in both our games against City and Liverpool in our deep block defending.

Can't have learned that from Pep, never see a Pep team defend like this before. It actually reminds me of our 2-0 win at Ettithad under Wenger few years ago.

Worth remembering Arteta played for David Moyes for like 6 years and Alex McLeish before that. Some kind of weird pedigree he has, it's really a perfect mix in a lot of ways. Something very poetic about the Scottish-Basque convergence in his life and career, with a touch of Alsatian-Catalan radicalism.

Qwiss! wrote:

Have to say after Spurs I was dispondent 

really? it was a good game, at least the first half ...lots of positive play. Compared to last few years, you could see a difference in that game too.

Fucking amazing. Can't believe we're in the final again. Would have made a fortune being on us to win both the last 2 games. At least we have something to look forward to at the end of this nightmare season but hopefully not another Baku.

Clrnc wrote:

Rohit wrote:

We aren't giving up (m)any clear cut chances. We are making it hard and it isn't pretty but we haven't looked this comfortable before with men behind the ball. Whatever Arteta is doing in training is working.

While watching it, I was thinking there's a clear structure and pattern in both our games against City and Liverpool in our deep block defending.

Can't have learned that from Pep, never see a Pep team defend like this before. It actually reminds me of our 2-0 win at Ettithad under Wenger few years ago.

Not just in terms of the deep and narrow block.  IMO in both games Arteta conceded the flanks by making us hard to play through the center.  This forced them to try to cross into the middle or the have to keep passing across the top of the area.  Emery had the same idea v LFC but the wrong shape to make it work with this squad.

If the game you're thinking about is when we lined up in a 4141 with Coquelin as DM, the was talk the players made that call themselves in a meeting they had without any staff members including AW.  AW wasn't too impressed and we didn't play that shape & roles again, and AW tried to convert Coquelin to playing a high ball winner role, much like Emery and Torreira.

Last nite - biggest win since 2017 FA Cup final in terms of overall feel good factor and importance?

the second goal was very much in the vein of Wenger. We used to see this with a CM + Bellerin and Theo. Not mindless backpasses but quick back-and-forths.

Coombs wrote:

Clrnc wrote:

While watching it, I was thinking there's a clear structure and pattern in both our games against City and Liverpool in our deep block defending.

Can't have learned that from Pep, never see a Pep team defend like this before. It actually reminds me of our 2-0 win at Ettithad under Wenger few years ago.

Worth remembering Arteta played for David Moyes for like 6 years and Alex McLeish before that. Some kind of weird pedigree he has, it's really a perfect mix in a lot of ways. Something very poetic about the Scottish-Basque convergence in his life and career, with a touch of Alsatian-Catalan radicalism.

Oh yeah that's true. Moyes was good in those low block football back in his early days at Everton. Just remembered our assistant Steve Round was also Moyes's assistant. We have a head coach that can play both ways.

I was rewatching the match at Anzac was right, we conceded the flanks and midfield on purpose to pack the box so they can only cross for Luiz to head it away or try long shots.

Clrnc wrote:

Coombs wrote:

Worth remembering Arteta played for David Moyes for like 6 years and Alex McLeish before that. Some kind of weird pedigree he has, it's really a perfect mix in a lot of ways. Something very poetic about the Scottish-Basque convergence in his life and career, with a touch of Alsatian-Catalan radicalism.

Oh yeah that's true. Moyes was good in those low block football back in his early days at Everton. Just remembered our assistant Steve Round was also Moyes's assistant. We have a head coach that can play both ways.

I was rewatching the match at Anzac was right, we conceded the flanks and midfield on purpose to pack the box so they can only cross for Luiz to head it away or try long shots.

Want to watch this again. Was thinking that our boy was more Simeone than Guardiola last night. 
The tactics were spot on. I mentioned 2 things we could do against City that aren’t as easy vs Pool: cede flanks because their crossing game isn’t as good. And play through the press because last line of defense isn’t as strong. But the organized block in and in front of penalty area was joyous. 

Claudius wrote:

Clrnc wrote:

Oh yeah that's true. Moyes was good in those low block football back in his early days at Everton. Just remembered our assistant Steve Round was also Moyes's assistant. We have a head coach that can play both ways.

I was rewatching the match at Anzac was right, we conceded the flanks and midfield on purpose to pack the box so they can only cross for Luiz to head it away or try long shots.

Want to watch this again. Was thinking that our boy was more Simeone than Guardiola last night. 
The tactics were spot on. I mentioned 2 things we could do against City that aren’t as easy vs Pool: cede flanks because their crossing game isn’t as good. And play through the press because last line of defense isn’t as strong. But the organized block in and in front of penalty area was joyous. 

Spot on. We have a gem on our hands, lets back him in the market.

I know it's a good problem to have, but it'll be absolutely cruel to whoever ends up being our backup GK next season. Two of our best performers.

Compilation of the best tweets last night.

What an interview this was. Top man. Starting to make sense to give him that extension, you feel he really add a lot to our dressing room and also backline in a 3.

Even the boyhood Arsenal fan was raving about him.

Clrnc wrote:

Compilation of the best tweets last night.

Arteta beat him so silly he started seeing ghosts.

arsedoc md wrote:

Qwiss! wrote:

Have to say after Spurs I was dispondent 

really? it was a good game, at least the first half ...lots of positive play. Compared to last few years, you could see a difference in that game too.

Nah that result killed me. Disgusting to lose to those fuckers - especially the current incarnation of them and the fact that their manager perennially has the better of us (though that game might be the last time).

We deserved to draw and we lost due to the cretins we have at the back.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:

arsedoc md wrote:

really? it was a good game, at least the first half ...lots of positive play. Compared to last few years, you could see a difference in that game too.

Nah that result killed me. Disgusting to lose to those fuckers - especially the current incarnation of them and the fact that their manager perennially has the better of us (though that game might be the last time).

We deserved to draw and we lost due to the cretins we have at the back.

You wouldn’t swap beating Man City for beating spurs last week though would you?

No, I'd swap losing to Spurs with beating them.

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but if we win the FA cup we take the EL spot from the 7th placed team which very likely could end up being Tottenham. We could essentially put an end to their period of relevance.

That would be poetry.

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but if we win the FA cup we take the EL spot from the 7th placed team which very likely could end up being Tottenham. We could essentially put an end to their period of relevance.

Yup. The delayed St. Totts. Would be even sweeter cos we'd win yet another FA Cup while the greatest team to ever kick a football still has nothing to show for it after all the praise they got under Pochettino 

Claudius wrote:

Clrnc wrote:

Oh yeah that's true. Moyes was good in those low block football back in his early days at Everton. Just remembered our assistant Steve Round was also Moyes's assistant. We have a head coach that can play both ways.

I was rewatching the match at Anzac was right, we conceded the flanks and midfield on purpose to pack the box so they can only cross for Luiz to head it away or try long shots.

Want to watch this again. Was thinking that our boy was more Simeone than Guardiola last night. 
The tactics were spot on. I mentioned 2 things we could do against City that aren’t as easy vs Pool: cede flanks because their crossing game isn’t as good. And play through the press because last line of defense isn’t as strong. But the organized block in and in front of penalty area was joyous. 

And they lack height more than we do.

As for playing through the press this is where that 18 pass move for the opening goal is soooooo good.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:

arsedoc md wrote:

really? it was a good game, at least the first half ...lots of positive play. Compared to last few years, you could see a difference in that game too.

Nah that result killed me. Disgusting to lose to those fuckers - especially the current incarnation of them and the fact that their manager perennially has the better of us (though that game might be the last time).

We deserved to draw and we lost due to the cretins we have at the back.

I suspect that loss may have galvanised things to the results and performances these last 2 games.

Anzac wrote:

Also want to say I'm glad AW didn't come back to take a seat on the BoD.

He would not have enjoyed the style of play seen this week remembering after the 2005 FA Cup win he said he'd rather not win again than to do so playing in that manner.  IIRC there was some comment later about the players not following his instructions and being forced onto the back foot.

That is not fully accurate. Many of his best performances in the following season's Champions League were founded on a strong defense and counter-attacking football. And that Arsenal team was shaky in the league. Henry adapted to a 1 striker system really well

Claudius wrote:

Anzac wrote:

Also want to say I'm glad AW didn't come back to take a seat on the BoD.

He would not have enjoyed the style of play seen this week remembering after the 2005 FA Cup win he said he'd rather not win again than to do so playing in that manner.  IIRC there was some comment later about the players not following his instructions and being forced onto the back foot.

That is not fully accurate. Many of his best performances in the following season's Champions League were founded on a strong defense and counter-attacking football. And that Arsenal team was shaky in the league. Henry adapted to a 1 striker system really well

IIRC that run to the UCL Final was Keown working as a consultant working with a make-shift back4 that set a UCL defensive record.
 

Keown's magical work that season gets all the more legendary for each passing year. The man apparently transformed our defence in Europe but couldn't stop us from losing every week in the league.

Wenger had priors when it came to transforming players out of position and forging great defences. He took a makeshift Kolo Touré and turned him into the best defender in Europe, a Lauren who used to be a midfielder and turned him into the best rightback in the league. The invincibles defence did not contain a single player he had inherited and it was the best we've ever had at this club by far.

Great performance yesterday. Fully deserved with tactics spot on. Would be very sweet if we managed to win FA Cup and simultaneous prevent Spurs getting any European football.

I wonder if the lack of fans made it a little easier for us to implement these tactics. An actual crowd would reduce the audibility of the instructions from Arteta and between players, plus emotions may have run higher leading to more reckless challenges etc. Either way, we took advantage and sets a good template for dealing with better possession based teams in the short term.

Klaus wrote:

Keown's magical work that season gets all the more legendary for each passing year. The man apparently transformed our defence in Europe but couldn't stop us from losing every week in the league.

No need for embellishments - the back4 that did most of the work in the UCL run included Flamini as a make-shift LB and Senderos at CB.
They conceded 2 goals in 12 games going into the Final and had a record 10 consecutive clean sheets, during which we won at RM in R32, and then beat Juve in the Q/Fs.

Klaus wrote:

Keown's magical work that season gets all the more legendary for each passing year. The man apparently transformed our defence in Europe but couldn't stop us from losing every week in the league.

Wenger had priors when it came to transforming players out of position and forging great defences. He took a makeshift Kolo Touré and turned him into the best defender in Europe, a Lauren who used to be a midfielder and turned him into the best rightback in the league. The invincibles defence did not contain a single player he had inherited and it was the best we've ever had at this club by far.

Sorry - I call BS on this = the part about being the best defence we've ever had by far.

Anzac wrote:

Klaus wrote:

Keown's magical work that season gets all the more legendary for each passing year. The man apparently transformed our defence in Europe but couldn't stop us from losing every week in the league.

No need for embellishments - the back4 that did most of the work in the UCL run included Flamini as a make-shift LB and Senderos at CB.
They conceded 2 goals in 12 games going into the Final and had a record 10 consecutive clean sheets, during which we won at RM in R32, and then beat Juve in the Q/Fs.

What I'm saying is that Wenger is the one who gets the credit, good or bad, for what we did that season, not Keown who was at the club for a month or two to work on his badges.

Anzac wrote:

Klaus wrote:

Keown's magical work that season gets all the more legendary for each passing year. The man apparently transformed our defence in Europe but couldn't stop us from losing every week in the league.

Wenger had priors when it came to transforming players out of position and forging great defences. He took a makeshift Kolo Touré and turned him into the best defender in Europe, a Lauren who used to be a midfielder and turned him into the best rightback in the league. The invincibles defence did not contain a single player he had inherited and it was the best we've ever had at this club by far.

Sorry - I call BS on this.

Really? You'd rather have Dixon than Lauren, Adams over Campbell, Winterburn over Cole? All of them were clearly a tier below the invincibles as players. Lehmann was better than Seaman too, although that one was a much closer call.

Klaus wrote:

Anzac wrote:

No need for embellishments - the back4 that did most of the work in the UCL run included Flamini as a make-shift LB and Senderos at CB.
They conceded 2 goals in 12 games going into the Final and had a record 10 consecutive clean sheets, during which we won at RM in R32, and then beat Juve in the Q/Fs.

What I'm saying is that Wenger is the one who gets the credit, not Keown who was at the club for a month or two to work on his badges.

The talk I had heard was that Keown had been brought in as an SME from the days of The Legendary Back4, as they wanted his input to specifically work with the defence in the UCL.  IIRC he was supposed to do his badges carrying on from that season but the offer was never made and he's never been offered a coaching position at the club since.

I think your recollection is wrong, Anzac.

Klaus wrote:

Anzac wrote:

Sorry - I call BS on this.

Really? You'd rather have Dixon than Lauren, Adams over Campbell, Winterburn over Cole? All of them were clearly a tier below the invincibles as players. Lehmann was better than Seaman too, although that one was a much closer call.

I'll give you The Invincibles were better as individual players, but IMO The Legendary Back4 & Seaman were the better defensive unit, and lasted longer.

Klaus wrote:

I think your recollection is wrong, Anzac.

Then my apologies if so.

Xhaka has been so good these past few playing months

Bit nerdy but heres a video on cruyffs tactics when he managed barca in 88 with pep in midfield.
Cryff had 2 systems at the time the 4-3-3 with inverted full backs pep uses now. And the 3-4-3 arteta uses now. And you can see how it all works.

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

Xhaka has been so good these past few playing months

It's a wonder he can play without all the booing. 

Anzac wrote:

Klaus wrote:

I think your recollection is wrong, Anzac.

Then my apologies if so.

Yeah, that's an urban myth. We've seen several ex-players return to the club for their badges, none of them had any involvement in the tactics. Logically - why would they?

The 06 Champions League run was pretty freakish. Eboue was never that good before or after for example.

Thought it was common knowledge that Keown had significant input into our defensive training or whatever during that season. Or just an urban myth??

Its as real as the myth when our defence improved for a short period of time after Bould became assistant.