Klaus wrote:

Mirth wrote:

Yeah, because we'd concede 20 shots on target to the likes of Watford every week.

Well we've created the second least amount of shots on goal this Premier League season so far. We're playing the only side that has been worse than us in that regard tomorrow. As good a time as any to adjust those depressing stats I reckon.

But I don't think there's much hope of changing that with the current players. We could try to alter the system but broadly speak the system itself is getting results even though it's terrible to watch - Arteta addressed this earlier last season. What's changed in the tools he has to use since then?

Asked about the failure to create chances, he said: “I have my reasons that I don’t want to make public, but it’s clear those stats don’t lie.

“When you relate them to Arsenal, it’s not good enough. There are certain aspects of the games that we don’t control as well as we should.

Pressed on whether it was down to a personnel issue, he went on: “It’s everything, it’s personnel, it’s myself that I have to improve to do things better, much better, individual, collective issues, a lot of things.”

It sounds as though pragmatism has also played a part. Eager to tighten up a leaky defence, Arteta has turned to playing with a three-man backline and wing-backs. With one less player in the centre of midfield – a position reserved pre-lockdown for Mesut Ozil – we’ve often looked short of bodies when we reach the final third and have had to rely on our attackers to do the hard work.

“When you are in a process and need immediate results, immediate performances and need to give your team the best chance to fight for the objectives that we have short-term, you have to find a way to do it,” explained the Spaniard.

“You cannot just shoot yourself in the feet trying to do something in certain moments that you are not able to do. We are trying to find this way but obviously the next step in our evolution has to be very much linked into that to improve that area a lot.”

He added: “Yes [it puts pressure on the strikers], and we have to put that [scoring] into the collective psyche more. Everybody should understand better how we’re going to do that process.

“It [the pressure] is inevitable though, at the end of the day they [the strikers] have to be the ones scoring the goals and the others have to get the service right for them and more consistency to get in the right areas more often.”

https://arseblog.news/2020/07/the-stats-dont-lie-arteta-reflects-on-arsenals-creative-struggles/

Clrnc wrote:

Mirth wrote:

Fundamentally this squad is the vision of 3 managers and 3 CEOS - of course it's a disjointed mess. We're going to have to clear it out over successive transfer windows and not make anymore mistakes.

We have a squad of 9 CBs, 3 RBs and 1 LBs when Kolasinac is sold. It's hilarious.

And a sad midfield. Feels like sabotage 

Mirth wrote:

goon wrote:

Both side of the argument are right. Arteta needs more, but he also needs to deliver more with whatever he ends up with, not least the £70m man he's leaving on the bench every week.

Not sure he should pick a player just because he's worth £70m. The man accountable for the Pepe transfer was asked to leave the club.

Fundamentally this squad is the vision of 3 managers and 3 CEOS - of course it's a disjointed mess. We're going to have to clear it out over successive transfer windows and not make anymore mistakes.

I think he sort of does, not just because of the price tag, but because he's definitely one of the few genuinely talented players in the squad.

He's not at City where he can just wash his hands of him and say he didn't sign him so it's not his problem, the clubs needs Pepe to be a good signing even if not one that's value for money.

To be fair to Arteta, I don't think he's washing his hand of Pepe so much as trying to mould him, but sooner or later he needs to get him to deliver.

the center backs just kept getting hurt, making it hard to sell injured players and then you need replacements.

Klaus wrote:

Mirth wrote:

Yeah, because we'd concede 20 shots on target to the likes of Watford every week.

Well we've created the second least shots on goal this Premier League season so far. We're playing the only side that has been worse than us in that regard tomorrow. As good a time as any to adjust those depressing stats I reckon.

We need to make a statement tomorrow. At the moment its looking like our easiest league game until the middle of December.

goon wrote:

Mirth wrote:

Not sure he should pick a player just because he's worth £70m. The man accountable for the Pepe transfer was asked to leave the club.

Fundamentally this squad is the vision of 3 managers and 3 CEOS - of course it's a disjointed mess. We're going to have to clear it out over successive transfer windows and not make anymore mistakes.

I think he sort of does, not just because of the price tag, but because he's definitely one of the few genuinely talented players in the squad.

He's not at City where he can just wash his hands of him and say he didn't sign him so it's not his problem, the clubs needs Pepe to be a good signing even if not one that's value for money.

To be fair to Arteta, I don't think he's washing his hand of Pepe so much as trying to mould him, but sooner or later he needs to get him to deliver.

Yeah, I do think Arteta needs to ultimately work with him and get the most he can.

However personally I don't think Pepe is that talented.

I think generally Arteta has done an ok job in spite of a horrible squad. He has introduced a certain defensive structure and several players seem to play with a bit more confidence - although that might be the lack of crowds.. But he has also made some really odd team selections. Gabriel is obviously our best cb and Ceballos is obviously our best cm, and both were benched against Liverpool. Truly bizarre. Saka should also get a bigger role in the team.

Mirth wrote:

However personally I don't think Pepe is that talented.

Easily better than the alternatives. Problem is we've got the only 3 players who can actually play ball competing for that right wing position while filling out the rest of the XI with grafters. In the ideal world Pepe, Willian and Saka all start.

Kel Varnsen wrote:

I think generally Arteta has done an ok job in spite of a horrible squad. He has introduced a certain defensive structure and several players seem to play with a bit more confidence - although that might be the lack of crowds.. But he has also made some really odd team selections. Gabriel is obviously our best cb and Ceballos is obviously our best cm, and both were benched against Liverpool. Truly bizarre. Saka should also get a bigger role in the team.

Correct. I hope his lineup makes sense tomorrow.

Weekends results spooked me a bit. Happy to stick with 5 defenders until mikel gets the players he wants  :john:

Gazza M wrote:

Weekends results spooked me a bit. Happy to stick with 5 defenders until mikel gets the players he wants  :john:

I think the lack of a genuine #2 CB is what is having us retain the back3 atm, as Luiz is exposed in a back2.

That said I'd still consider changing formation to a 4231 against teams that will allow us to play, and retain the 343 for those teams that are expected to want the ball themselves.

Am a fence sitter when it comes to judging Arteta’s head coaching career.
Today he showed something: flexibility, willingness to sub early, to change tactics.
Keep it up.

If Arteta likes what he saw yesterday and decides that this 4231 is something to keep, what are the implications for our squad?

That line of 3 would have the following starters?
RW - Pépé
LW - Saka
10 - Willy

Does that open more opportunities for Nelson? Would Willock be used as Pépé relief? Who else plays in this set up? And what does it mean for Lacazette / Nketiah? And is the formation something he only uses against lesser clubs?

Claudius wrote:

If Arteta likes what he saw yesterday and decides that this 4231 is something to keep, what are the implications for our squad?

That line of 3 would have the following starters?
RW - Pépé
LW - Saka
10 - Willy

Does that open more opportunities for Nelson? Would Willock be used as Pépé relief? Who else plays in this set up? And what does it mean for Lacazette / Nketiah? And is the formation something he only uses against lesser clubs?

I think Laca and Eddie have to fight for their spot, at least till the Jan window. Are either really doing enough to be a guaranteed starter?

The flip side is there should be more room for Nelson, Willock and ESR assuming none leave today. In fact those 3 in behind Eddie or Laca against City in the league cup would be interesting. They can get used to it in the EL games.

Good formation for when Martinelli returns too

Agree with you. Neither of them have elevated themselves. Lacazette has really lost something since that injury last summer. He’s absolutely not the same player. Feel bad for him. All he does is drop back and bounce balls back into into midfield. You look at Firmino orchestrating and see that a less talented but smarter player is doing that pivot role much better. Or even the playmaking that Kane is doing now.

On Eddie: if we aren’t controlling possession and spending lots of time on the opposition box, I’m not sure how he’s going to shine. He has a lot to work on but it’s early days.

I think Eddie is a good counter attacking player too but we rarely get that room to exploit.

I think they are both valuable squad players though, I just think they're slightly outside the first XI for me.

IMO just about everything goes out the window with the signing of Partey - he changes our dynamics in both attack and defence in addition to providing options in terms of shape and roles.

I genuinely have no idea how Arteta is going to line up when it all gets going, in a good way. I'm excited.

Coombs wrote:

I genuinely have no idea how Arteta is going to line up when it all gets going, in a good way. I'm excited.

Point being Partey in midfield opens up so many opportunities as we no longer have to compromise in either selections or roles.  

With him we can now provide a midfield that is balanced and fit for purpose on merit.  The signing of any other CMs is now about either improving the quality in the other positions/roles, and/or investing to the future.  

I'm excited about the prospects of our attacking play with the handbrake off knowing the midfield has the cover defence in hand either through the middle or down the flanks.

The starting XI isn't finished as yet but we are a very big step closer.

Against Sheffield we started off with a 4-3-3 then transitioned into 4-2-3-1 when Pepe came on. Willian in the hole was so much more useful than on the flanks.

Regardless of what formation we play, the team shape is mostly the same when defending deep or in full attack. It's how we transition that changes. I don't really like the 4-3-3 we put up 1st half, it was neither here nor there.

In defence, I'm a little worried that we love ceding the wide areas to shore up the box, especially late in games. I don't think it works. It affords opponents a lot of little chances which eventually add up.

In attack we have this really Wengerish habit of trying to craft the perfect strike.

A lot of tactics talk this thread, maybe we need a new tactics thread?

naz wrote:

If we're playing five at the back, it has be him and Xhaka with Xhaka subbing for Dani.

If we're playing 4 at the back, it has be him and Xhaka and Dani. Other options are a downgrade.

Does it get more complicated than that? Unless we think Arteta is going to go with 4-2-3-1 and have someone more advanced as a CAM. Even then it'll be Dani or Saka or maybe at worst Willian there.

If we are playing 5 at the back, we have normally a serious lack of creativity. Weird to suggest it will be Xhaka and him. Probably Xhaka and Dani.

I think our best option for a midfield trio at home is Partey, Ceballos and Willian if we are playing 4 defenders

I found this quite interesting from Edu on arsenal.com

I think we improved the squad's quality and physicality. Thomas, who we had in our plan for the future, when me and Mikel sit and talked, I think you get all the players who we really focused on. If you see Willian, he brings us experience and a very special physicality in terms of speed. If you see Gabriel, he gives us a lot of physicality and presence. Dani, quality. Thomas, physicality, quality and mentally he is very strong. But in the end if you see all these players we brought to the club, they are very good here (points to legs), but they are better here (points to head) which for me is very important because when you talk to the players, they have a lot of ambition, they are excited and they are hungry to win a title again. This, for me, is important to have in the players to not only be good here (points to legs), but good here (points to head). And they are.

It seems like they've placed a lot of weight on physicality as well as the mental aspect of the game in recruitment. There's a quote I've seen from Arteta on twitter that I can never find when I want to reference it, where he highlights how important it is to have good physical attributes in the PL. 

That part was music to my ears. The whole interview with Edu is a good watch:

https://www.arsenal.com/news/parteys-been-our-plans-six-seven-months

As much as I'm certain that Arteta is his own man with his own ideas anyway, I was rather hoping he would have a different view from Guardiola when it came to valuing physical power in his team.

I think the Pep comparisons have always been a little lazy. 100% he'd have taken a lot of methods and ideas, but every man has his own idea of how to play football.

Mirth wrote:

Thanks for this. Interesting that he lists Cryuff's Barcelona team as his 'hero'. I wonder if that's where he gets his tactical influences from?

Arteta is building a rep for having a defensively solid, organised side, but he has always maintained that he wants to play very attacking football.

I think SU was a glimpse. It wasn't particularly pretty for much of the game but we played a really high line, committed both fullbacks high up the pitch and kept the ball for long periods up until the last 10 mins or so.

Pep has only worked with Cruyff and Bielsa's football before. None of them are pragmatic.

Arteta have Moyes influence(especially with Round his assistant), have Stuivenberg (LVG's protege), and has played everywhere understanding different cultures. Not too surprising.

I just want to stop playing with 3 out and out CBs, which to be fair Arteta has pretty much stopped doing already. Feels like Tierney is more of a defender when AMN plays left, and more of modern fullback when Saka plays there.

It's going to be hard to get Saka, Auba, and Partey in the same team without playing Saka on the right. I feel Saka will likely take more of a back seat, which is probably for the best. Don't think he should be starting week in week out. We'll ruin him.

I don't think it'd ruin him to be our first choice unless we don't give him a rest when he needs one.

I mean, it’s a different dispensation but we do have a prior record when it comes to mismanaging young players due to overuse and lack of rest when it appears like they are crucial to our chances to win. We’ll have to see how Arteta handles this aspect of management as well. Early signs indicate that he is conscious of the work load and strain these players are under, especially as he implements a high intensity pressing style (points at legs).

Much will depend on what shape Arteta plays and the roles available. Saka is perhaps more likely to see starting time if we play 4231 rather than 433, and would possibly rotate with Martinelli when he returns.

flobaba wrote:

I mean, it’s a different dispensation but we do have a prior record when it comes to mismanaging young players due to overuse and lack of rest when it appears like they are crucial to our chances to win. We’ll have to see how Arteta handles this aspect of management as well. Early signs indicate that he is conscious of the work load and strain these players are under, especially as he implements a high intensity pressing style (points at legs).

Think Per's influence will help here.

Anzac wrote:

Much will depend on what shape Arteta plays and the roles available.  Saka is perhaps more likely to see starting time if we play 4231 rather than 433, and would possibly rotate with Martinelli when he returns.

Why 4231 but not 433? Both have wide forwards, no?

in 4231 Willian is a CAM, in 433 he's occupying one of the wide positions.

Yes, I forgot about him.

Good interview.

"How many languages do you speak?"
"6 or 7. And Scottish"

I wonder what kind of influence the fact that Arteta took a paycut to join us back when he was a player. How does he view players that won't take paycuts to even be able to play.

Let’s be fair, Players have a right to refuse a shave. It shouldn’t be a factor in Arteta’s decision making about who is beneficial to the team and who isn’t.

If I were a manager it would be the least of my considerations.

Where's that come from?