Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.: Page 136 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.

speedy

Clrnc wrote:
I agree with everything Ricky said, but I refuse to believe the alternatives ain't better than Willian and Lacazette. There's literally no upside playing those 2 idiots.

You can make a case for playing Xhaka given how poor Ceballos is and Partey is injured and Willock out of depth. But not those 2

A good way to help come to terms with it would be when comparing it to when miki was playing. He was shit, fans celebrated him leaving then our right flank completely died

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
I agree with everything Ricky said, but I refuse to believe the alternatives ain't better than Willian and Lacazette. There's literally no upside playing those 2 idiots.

You can make a case for playing Xhaka given how poor Ceballos is and Partey is injured and Willock out of depth. But not those 2

Yeah I don't know how anyone could watch Willian and Pepe and conclude the Brazillian is having a better season.

Ricky1985 wrote:
I like that Arteta is taking it to this group of players - fuck them. Seriously. We all know this club has been one big holiday camp for far too long. And a few FA cups doesn't change that. If Arteta is trying to drag us back to behaving like a top club from the top down, and we sit low down in the table for a season whilst the overpaid pretenders that make up 90% of our squad are kicked out of the club then so be it. This is necessary and it was never going to be painless. These guys do not matter, and if they do because they outlast Arteta, then we're fucked anyway.

But he's not. He's picking and choosing who he's "taking it to". Willian can fuck off to Dubai and theres no consequences. David Luiz can do whatever the fuck he wants, throw away games with stupid red cards and get a new contract, Xhaka can be as shit and dumb as he likes and get offered a new deal, ditto Mustufai. The same players play like shit every week and get picked again.

Arteta talks a big game on accountability and "non-negotiable" but its absolute bullshit. In practice every thing is negotiable if you are a senior player. All he's managed to do with this inconsistent approach is sour the dressing room and turn players against him.

The players may be over paid pretenders who don't matter but whats Arteta? He's basically the fucking David Luiz of management, great at PR but not so great when it matters.

awooga83

Those edu comments are a total mess and don't inspire any sort of confidence. It reads like someone totally delusional and not grasping what's going on. Another example of a mistake appointment and entrusting so much power in a total novice. The William stuff just crazy.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
The alternative to Laca up front was Eddie, and he didn’t perform, the alternative to Laca at 10 was Willock, and he didn’t perform in the league either. Suddenly no one is clamouring for them to get more chances. ESR is one alternative but he’s been injured up until now.

Nelson is probably the one young player who hasn’t had a fair shot and decent player time, but that might change. Either way, he’s another player that’s always struggled when given a chance in the league.

It’s not easy. Throw them into this environment and our fan base will eat them alive, lock how much criticism Nelson got for his cameo against Wolves? They’re all getting plenty of game time in all competitions, that’s enough for now.

I think you have to ask why no one in the attack is playing at an acceptable level. Really Aubameyang is the only one who has done well at all in our front 3/4 since Arteta took over. When Auba was consistently scoring way above his xG is papered over the cracks but now that he's come back down to earth the reality is being exposed. I really don't think our forwards are half as bad as they look at the moment, even Willian was playing really well during the summer at Chelsea. Peoples problem with that signing was the length of it not his current ability. And Willian was the puzzle piece Arteta wanted, you can't use the excuse of the players aren't there when his own pick is stood outside the box every week hoofing in crosses for Auba, Laca and Eddie to try and win against the likes of Tarkowski and Mee. Its just terrible coaching that ignores the players we have in favour of some nonsense stat about crosses.

goon

Yeah absolutely. I don't think anyone is saying Arteta is doing the best he can with this lot. But most managers have their own style of play and their own philosophy, you don't really get many who adjust to the players and then evolve as time goes on. Even then results should be much, much better, confidence is gone. The question comes down to whether or not you think he can pull us out of it, and whether with more funds he can do better than Willian as a solution, which is evidently a mistake.

I don't want to get into the style of play too much you say that about crosses being ineffective against Tarkowski and Mee but he had enough chances from crosses against Burnley that your average player should have put at least a couple away, Son and Kane would have scored 3 or 4 on current form. And that's ignoring how poor the delivery has been at times. I've heard pundits and journo's mock it as if it's some weird concept, yet I swear almost 80% of the goals I've seen since I've started paying attention have come from crosses from wide areas. Arteta just made the mistake of mentioning it a press conference.

Rohit

We haven't scored from open play forever it seems, regardless of the the quality of defenders/ unit we have come up against . Whatever Arteta's go-to attacking strategy is, like it or not, what is more frustrating is that there is no indication that he has attempted to add some variety, to push for some change in his plans. We just do more and more of it in hope of a different result.

Qwiss

Just "crosses" doesn't tell you enough though, like I said Willian stays wide and mostly puts in swingy fairly flat crosses. Tierney does the same on the left. Great for a guy like Giroud, not so much for Auba or Eddie Nketiah. People say thats how City and Liverpool play but its not the same at all, they may cross but the crosses are different. Arteta seems to have the attitude any cross is good, City play far more from the by line in the box for instance, Liveprool play from deeper and much more quickly so they don't end up crossing into a congested box like we do.

The problem was never that crossing is bad, the problem is saying we are good because we made 30 crosses, its too simplistic.

goon

Yeah, I made the same point the other day, most of our crosses against Wolves and Spurs you sort of knew were going to be harmless before it was made, either too deep (from players who don't have that sort of cross in their locker) or awkward body positions etc. That being said a lot of it was also just down to poor deliveries, Hector against Spurs got into great positions half a dozen times in that game and it should have let to good chances. I thought it was much better against Burnley too.

Personally I put it down to desperation and the players not being able to work it into better areas first, I can't imagine the instruction is cross every chance you get. The rest is just Arteta trying to put a positive spin.

Qwiss

Part of it is poor delivery but part of it is a lack of space and poor movement too. Watch City and Liverpool and compare their movement to how static we are. You very rarely see Mane waiting for the ball, all our play is ball to feet.

goon

And the passes don't come when the movement is there, or are just poor in execution. I made this point during a game but Tierney made a couple of runs and on both occasions Xhaka held the ball until Tierney had to stop to stay onside and then Granit passed it to him. Willian is guilty of just ignoring Hectors over/underlaps too. We're riddled with hesitation this season.

Kel Varnsen

Clrnc wrote:
I agree with everything Ricky said, but I refuse to believe the alternatives ain't better than Willian and Lacazette. There's literally no upside playing those 2 idiots.

You can make a case for playing Xhaka given how poor Ceballos is and Partey is injured and Willock out of depth. But not those 2

No, you can't. No matter how poor Ceballos have been, he is still far better than Xhaka who is a fucking black hole in this team.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
And the passes don't come when the movement is there, or are just poor in execution. I made this point during a game but Tierney made a couple of runs and on both occasions Xhaka held the ball until Tierney had to stop to stay onside and then Granit passed it to him. Willian is guilty of just ignoring Hectors over/underlaps too. We're riddled with hesitation this season.

Tierney also when he does get the ball often ends up having to hold it for ages or just go backwards, there is no one coming into him to show for a pass. Its one of the worst things about Laca at 10, he doesn't move towards the ball in situations like that. Thats why I want AMN to get a run, he was constantly trying to show for the ball against Dundalk.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

It's literally laughable that Arteta/the club think the sheer volume of crosses indicates we're a competent attacking team 😆

What the fuck is this?

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Qwiss! wrote:
goon wrote:
And the passes don't come when the movement is there, or are just poor in execution. I made this point during a game but Tierney made a couple of runs and on both occasions Xhaka held the ball until Tierney had to stop to stay onside and then Granit passed it to him. Willian is guilty of just ignoring Hectors over/underlaps too. We're riddled with hesitation this season.

Tierney also when he does get the ball often ends up having to hold it for ages or just go backwards, there is no one coming into him to show for a pass. Its one of the worst things about Laca at 10, he doesn't move towards the ball in situations like that. Thats why I want AMN to get a run, he was constantly trying to show for the ball against Dundalk.

The absolute dearth of players coming short for an in-field pass is perfectly in keeping with Mikel's horseshoe philosophy.

flobaba

Yep. It’s like there’s an invisible force field in the middle of the park. If we MUST go down the wings all the time, we need our forward line players or attacking midfielders coming into tiny pockets of space in the midfield/final third. Players who can turn on the ball if they aren’t tightly marked, and sometimes even if they are. Then our midfielders players would typically have the technical ability and confidence to pick out these quick short passes which commit an opposing defender and opens the space which we can manipulate and work down the wings for the fullbacks to exploit. Instead of depending on Tierney being able to blow past his marker 3 out of 10 times and whip in an accurate cross once out of those 3, which no one gets to.

Clrnc

Auba doesnt attack the ball well in a congested box, less said about Laca the better. Crossing to those 2 is like trying to feed undelicious meat to vegetarians. It's a ridiculous attacking tactic of hit and hope. Only clueless managers does that.

Arteta keep talking about needing specific 433 players to play 433. That's pure bullshit. Players are versatile enough, it sounds like an excuse. Never heard of many managers saying that. He also always say we are not attractive to watch currently because we don't have the players to play the style he want. Again, most managers style is distinct and obvious enough without buying a new team, regardless of results. When Arteta is winning cup games it's excusable, now the results are not delivering it's harder to listen to those words.

Kel Varnsen wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
I agree with everything Ricky said, but I refuse to believe the alternatives ain't better than Willian and Lacazette. There's literally no upside playing those 2 idiots.

You can make a case for playing Xhaka given how poor Ceballos is and Partey is injured and Willock out of depth. But not those 2

No, you can't. No matter how poor Ceballos have been, he is still far better than Xhaka who is a fucking black hole in this team.

Oh but Xhaka is literally the only choice left after Elneny. He will always play a few games here and there given how pathetic our options there are.

swider

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:
It's literally laughable that Arteta/the club think the sheer volume of crosses indicates we're a competent attacking team 😆

What the fuck is this?

The way I understand it is they claim that we are able to impose our style of play on opponent. And to fair to them if you ignore quality of those crosses or the fact that we have no good players to be at the end of them, we do not swarm the box and that during corner kicks we change for unknown reason to short corners, it kinda makes sense.
It is also true that virtually nobody wants us to play like that for many reasons, including lack of end product, not being able to create momentum, being predictable and opponents looking quite comfortable defending against our attacks. But I guess those are just irrelevant details to our coaching staff.

Asterix

Look at City's goal this morning (in a draw with WBA!!). It came from a cutback, not a cross. They score a lot from people getting to the byline in the penalty area and cutting back. I think Arteta would like us to do that but we don't seem able. It's certainly rare for us to get players on the ball at the goal line near the 6 yard box.

We are swinging in crosses to an attack designed to play on the ground and on the counter. It's really baffling.

Anzac

Qwiss! wrote:
Part of it is poor delivery but part of it is a lack of space and poor movement too. Watch City and Liverpool and compare their movement to how static we are. You very rarely see Mane waiting for the ball, all our play is ball to feet.

Agreed - IMO it's a lasting legacy of our style from AW since 08-09.

I'd also say we lack composure in the final 3rd as we don't seem to know what we are doing in terms of how we are looking to score.
I also wonder if the seeming lack of a game plan isn't another example of Arteta mirroring elements of Guardiola/Cruyff tactical style in giving the players the freedom to express themselves in the final 3rd, but the focus on the flanks and lack of a genuine linking player in the middle sees the players resort to crossing or inside runs as a means of 'delivery'?

Perhaps a change to an inverted midfield3 would alleviate many of the issues with our current play in both transition and in the final 3rd.

That said at the end of the day if Arteta cannot show us something more than the current status quo in terms of our play (and if he's not going to be supported to get the players he wants for his system to work), then he should be replaced.

Asterix

Squires does it again - https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/dec/15/david-squires-on-the-chaotic-nature-of-this-period-in-football-history

Ahahaha.

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