Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.: Page 134 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.

goon

Qwiss! wrote:
Claudius wrote:
He raised their level for 3 months. We applauded his man management as Mustafi and Xhaka looked better (that should’ve set of alarm bells). And then it collapsed.

Did he though? They were still worse than Emerys first season.

Emery's first season is pretty irrelevant, he won 6 of his last 20 league games. Then Freddie came in and won 1 in 5.

Arteta undoubtedly improved the competitiveness of the team, I still actually think that's true. Biggest difference now is the form of several players has fallen off a cliff, and when you have a team that doesn't create chances, it doesn't take much to turn results from ok to disastrous.

My biggest gripe with Arteta is that he doesn't seem to appreciate talent. Pepe and Ceballos would have started every week under Wenger, because they're capable of doing much more with the ball than the alternatives. Arteta doesn't seems to prefer players he can predict and micromanage.

Qwiss

Don Pacifico wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Problems are there to be solved. Thats the managers job.

I think this is a very one dimensional argument, particularly with the complexity of how modern clubs are structured.

As goon said, there are problems but they're not all of Arteta's doing and not all ones that a manager can solve.

I think blaming things above Arteta or in the squad is just excuse making. The clubs far from perfect but its pretty similar to the squad and that Emery finished 5th and got to the Europa league final with. Above Arteta is a bit of a mess but thats the situation we are in, we need a manager who can deal with that mess. Plenty of other clubs are a mess at board and director level but the managers are still expected to delivery.

At the end of the day its Artetas job to coach, pick the team and tactics and on those grounds he is well and truly worthy of being fired.

goon

Qwiss! wrote:
Problems are there to be solved. Thats the managers job.

Absolutely, but the only way to fix a problem like Xhaka is to buy a solution like Partey.

awooga83

Agree Qwiss I don't think their level was raised Xhaka and Mustsfi were still awful. The difference was they hated Emery so somebody came in new and giving them a second chance so body language changed and they were more positive in outlook. But they couldn't change their level and eventually that's come through.

The cup run was great but it was cup games with Aubameyang ridiculously clinical in seeing off city and Chelsea. But they weren't evidence of some great change in our play and they are what people used to say he's improved is against the best teams despite being will beaten by them this year and Liverpool and city are worse this season no question.

Claudius

goon wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Did he though? They were still worse than Emerys first season.

Emery's first season is pretty irrelevant, he won 6 of his last 20 league games. Then Freddie came in and won 1 in 5.

Arteta undoubtedly improved the competitiveness of the team, I still actually think that's true. Biggest difference now is the form of several players has fallen off a cliff, and when you have a team that doesn't create chances, it doesn't take much to turn results from ok to disastrous.

My biggest gripe with Arteta is that he doesn't seem to appreciate talent. Pepe and Ceballos would have started every week under Wenger, because they're capable of doing much more with the ball than the alternatives. Arteta doesn't seems to prefer players he can predict and micromanage.

I don't pine for Wenger, but I do appreciate that he loved the beautiful game. He created constant movement of the ball and men. No matter who played. Theo, Giroud, Chamakh. They all participated. Think about all the beautiful sweeping moves involving Ramsey and/or Wilshere that Giroud facilitated. And he is about as big a donkey as they come.

So just what on earth is Arteta doing with the players that they should be so wooden? We all pine for youth but we are missing that the players are not doing the basics of just passing, moving and using the entire field properly. Instead, they are being directed away from goal by every opponent they face. Our playing patterns are dictated by our opponents. No team wants to stay on the touchline. That's an outcome off being unable to break down your opponent.

awooga83

goon wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Problems are there to be solved. Thats the managers job.

Absolutely, but the only way to fix a problem like Xhaka is to buy a solution like Partey.

Someone like Xhaka doesn't just need to be replaced though he needs to be got out of the club. He is s terrible influence certainly has a little clique and is a toxic influence. He represents in one person everything that has been wrong with us and tolerating him even worse.

Rohit

We could blame those above Arteta when it was the title we weren't competing for because of limitations imposed beyond Arteta's control. We sit 15th with 13 points from 12 games, 7 from 10 since we won the first 2 games. We don't have players to challenge but no way is this squad as bad as this. A manager's job is to get the best out of what he has, if not more, and sometimes the best isn't enough but we are way way better than what we are showing. We finished last season on a high, beat big teams, came into this season with momentum, started off with 2 straight wins, bought a marquee midfield player and it has been downhill from then and it lies squarely with Arteta. Such a shame, liked him as a player even before he came here and appreciated him even more when he was here. This is not going to end well unless he shows a willingness to change, to be more brave and humble.

Rohit

I also liked that the Kroenke's were bold. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Easy to say we shouldn't have gone for inexperience but it looked positive in August whatever one has to say about statistics and fundamentals. It remains to be seen how they tackle this though and I just don't think Edu can be trusted much either. He has no pedigree himself on the technical side. Something has to give if we don't beat Southampton on Wednesday.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Problems are there to be solved. Thats the managers job.

Absolutely, but the only way to fix a problem like Xhaka is to buy a solution like Partey.

One way not to fix a problem like Xhaka is to convince him to stay when he wants to leave.

Qwiss

Rohit wrote:
We could blame those above Arteta when it was the title we weren't competing for because of limitations imposed beyond Arteta's control. We sit 15th with 13 points from 12 games, 7 from 10 since we won the first 2 games. We don't have players to challenge but no way is this squad as bad as this. A manager's job is to get the best out of what he has, if not more, and sometimes the best isn't enough but we are way way better than what we are showing. We finished last season on a high, beat big teams, came into this season with momentum, started off with 2 straight wins, bought a marquee midfield player and it has been downhill from then and it lies squarely with Arteta. Such a shame, liked him as a player even before he came here and appreciated him even more when he was here. This is not going to end well unless he shows a willingness to change, to be more brave and humble.

Exactly this. The issues at the board level etc are stopping us from being a top European team but Arteta has turned us into a bottom half team.

Claudius

Qwiss! wrote:
Rohit wrote:
We could blame those above Arteta when it was the title we weren't competing for because of limitations imposed beyond Arteta's control. We sit 15th with 13 points from 12 games, 7 from 10 since we won the first 2 games. We don't have players to challenge but no way is this squad as bad as this. A manager's job is to get the best out of what he has, if not more, and sometimes the best isn't enough but we are way way better than what we are showing. We finished last season on a high, beat big teams, came into this season with momentum, started off with 2 straight wins, bought a marquee midfield player and it has been downhill from then and it lies squarely with Arteta. Such a shame, liked him as a player even before he came here and appreciated him even more when he was here. This is not going to end well unless he shows a willingness to change, to be more brave and humble.

Exactly this. The issues at the board level etc are stopping us from being a top European team but Arteta has turned us into a bottom half team.

Yup.
And that's the sad thing.
We can all see that. So now if we were to replace Arteta today, why would Pochettino, Allegri or any other high profile manager take a job that can only ever get them to 4th or 5th best in the league? What's the point of that? Our board and management is possibly limiting us to Emery type profiles given their incompetence.

ohboy

Gutted with the current situation.

In a critical game like that, Xhaka goes and does that. Unforgivable.

Arteta as well has to take the blame. Resigning Luiz, keeping Xhaka, offering a new contract to Mustafi is beyond lunacy. Edu and Arteta’s job was to clear out this squad in the limited time period available, and unfortunately due to competence as well as a severely depressed market, we basically stayed with the same squad.

That, and then having the likes of Sokratis, Ozil, and now Saliba, as big money players on the sidelines with zero involvement in the first team was always going an explosive situation.

He should be playing Saliba, full stop. As a manager you deal with what you have been given. There needs to be a sit down, and a clearing of the air. In January Luiz, Xhaka, Mustafi, Sokratis and Ozil must go, no if or buts. Saliba must stay and be given playing time.

I fear this situation is spiralling out of control.

goon

Claudius wrote:
I don't pine for Wenger, but I do appreciate that he loved the beautiful game. He created constant movement of the ball and men. No matter who played. Theo, Giroud, Chamakh. They all participated. Think about all the beautiful sweeping moves involving Ramsey and/or Wilshere that Giroud facilitated. And he is about as big a donkey as they come.

So just what on earth is Arteta doing with the players that they should be so wooden? We all pine for youth but we are missing that the players are not doing the basics of just passing, moving and using the entire field properly. Instead, they are being directed away from goal by every opponent they face. Our playing patterns are dictated by our opponents. No team wants to stay on the touchline. That's an outcome off being unable to break down your opponent.

Arteta's style is definitely more rigid in nature, personally I don't think that's inherently bad. Pep, Klopp and most top modern day managers are mostly the same. I think the mistake he's making is that he's filling the side with players who will adhere to his instructions to it's maximum, rather than picking the most talented players and trying to get them to work within the system, or getting the system to adapt a little to them.

Rohit

I didn't like Pochettino's football either. We just don't have his kind of players. I follow very little European football outside of Arsenal nowadays but we need a coach with experience, not necessarily pedigree. Someone who can man manage well and get individuals to play in a fluid manner confidently.

I can't stand Xhaka anymore. That said, he's been here 4 years and he was never as conservative as he is now in everything. It's not only him, you can see it in all the players where safety first has been drilled in their heads. We need a manager that can work with different types of players and doesn't rely on a particular style.

goon

Disagree strongly there. Xhaka has always reverted to playing like a coward. He did it under Wenger, he did it under Emery. I reckon the fucker blames the managers too rather than look at himself. Anytime he gets the ball the fucker throws his arms up as if he didn't have a couple of options before he dithered and passed it back.

I don't think we play conservatively either, we play out the back against the likes of Liverpool and City and we commit huge numbers forward against the likes of Spurs, United and Leicester. Partey as well has been much more adventurous whenever he's played. The likes of Xhaka and Elneny are just doing what they've always done. It's why I've been screaming for the central midfielders for the past couple of years.

Rohit

I don't know then, may be it's the setup now which makes his cowardice even starker but he just feels like he can't pass forward unless he has yards and seconds to himself. However, that aside, I do believe this very safety first attitude is something I haven't seen before at Arsenal. It becomes worse when the confidence is low too as it is now.

ohboy

goon wrote:
Disagree strongly there. Xhaka has always reverted to playing like a coward. He did it under Wenger, he did it under Emery. I reckon the fucker blames the managers too rather than look at himself. Anytime he gets the ball the fucker throws his arms up as if he didn't have a couple of options before he dithered and passed it back.

Exactly.

Xhaka has always hid. Very few forward passes, no balls over the top.

He has always hid, but then shows up in the most ridiculous situations like multiple red cards, and penalties given away.

Qwiss

Rohit wrote:
I can't stand Xhaka anymore. That said, he's been here 4 years and he was never as conservative as he is now in everything. It's not only him, you can see it in all the players where safety first has been drilled in their heads. We need a manager that can work with different types of players and doesn't rely on a particular style.

Yeah the stupid red card from Xhaka is typical, lunging into tackles is typical, being shit defensively is typical but his passing used to be, while inconsistent in quality, at least positive. Now he's got all those same flaws and he's playing terrible restrained football that limits the one strong area of his game. I don't recall Willian being such a backwards pass merchant at Chelsea either.

Clrnc

Xhaka had always been Xhaka. He has had some games here or two where he looked useful but cowardice is always in his game. He is so so rigid and limited as a CM beyond his left leg

deardevil

I said towards the end of Emery's tenure that in one at most two years, we will be back here talking about chopping the next manager. Well, I will make the same prediction again and say that if Arteta is gone then the next man won't last more than 14 months.

The problems and complaint points may be different next time but the underlying lack of quality will remain.

« Previous Page Next Page »