#kroenkeout: Page 9 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

#kroenkeout

mags

Qwiss! wrote:
speedy wrote:
I said when he came this would be exactly what to expect but people seemed really happy about his arrival for some reason. He didnt have an interest in football and didnt need the club for positive PR. It was just a financial investment. Theirs no massive war chest and he was never going to be or saviour. And he made that clear to be fair to him.

David Dein made people think he was bringing Kroenke in for the benefit of Arsenal, that he'd be like other big take overs at the time and spend money. The reality is Dein just brought him in because it was good for David Deins bank balance.

Now that reality has set in I think we as fans need to force him out if we ever want to progress again. A sustained movement of protests would probably do the job, it might take a while but owners tend to fuck off after a while if the fans reject them completely.

Where do I sign up?

Claudius

If I was in government, I’d tax the pants off these companies. I live in South Africa where people always complain about personal tax. I’d actually be happy to pay a higher personal tax. I have no problem with how the market values my services. These are globally trade-able skills. The top tax rate is 45%. It could be 50%. And they could levy higher taxes on non value add transfers like wills. And higher taxes on luxury goods like cars. I think South Africa has to do this because it has the 2nd highest inequality in the world, largely race-based. This money needs to go into better education. State education quality is segregated again by race. I’d have pushed even more aggressive wealth redistribution policies, but the ANC doesn’t have the balls.

speedy

Qwiss! wrote:
speedy wrote:
I said when he came this would be exactly what to expect but people seemed really happy about his arrival for some reason. He didnt have an interest in football and didnt need the club for positive PR. It was just a financial investment. Theirs no massive war chest and he was never going to be or saviour. And he made that clear to be fair to him.

David Dein made people think he was bringing Kroenke in for the benefit of Arsenal, that he'd be like other big take overs at the time and spend money. The reality is Dein just brought him in because it was good for David Deins bank balance.

Now that reality has set in I think we as fans need to force him out if we ever want to progress again. A sustained movement of protests would probably do the job, it might take a while but owners tend to fuck off after a while if the fans reject them completely.

Krosnke was 100% clear from day one.

"explicitly stating that he wants to continue to run the club on the current "break even" model." The Guardian 2011

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/apr/11/stan-kroenke-arsenal-takeover-questions

Their wasn't room for confusion from an investment standpoint. The only confusion would be from if he was going to saddled the debt on the club, which he didn't because he would have sunk it. But if we were stronger he probably would have.

Meatwad

as the years go by it looks more and more silly that we cut of our own balls in fear of the meager stadium debt repayments. the stadium will be paid off in 5 years and what will the extra 20m do for us then? not much.

Qwiss

speedy wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
David Dein made people think he was bringing Kroenke in for the benefit of Arsenal, that he'd be like other big take overs at the time and spend money. The reality is Dein just brought him in because it was good for David Deins bank balance.

Now that reality has set in I think we as fans need to force him out if we ever want to progress again. A sustained movement of protests would probably do the job, it might take a while but owners tend to fuck off after a while if the fans reject them completely.

Krosnke was 100% clear from day one.

"explicitly stating that he wants to continue to run the club on the current "break even" model." The Guardian 2011

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/apr/11/stan-kroenke-arsenal-takeover-questions

Their wasn't room for confusion from an investment standpoint. The only confusion would be from if he was going to saddled the debt on the club, which he didn't because he would have sunk it. But if we were stronger he probably would have.

IIRC correctly the claim was he'd be able to leverage the business side of things to help make the club more profitable which would allow for more spending on the football side. They've managed to do the opposite.

Burnwinter

It's that old Lagos / Citizen #9 "penny wise pound foolish" argument.

When we were in better days than now we had the opportunity to invest and claim some territory during the twilight of Wenger's era. We fucked up. We got beaten by 10 points by Leicester in 15-16 ... ! Still rankles.

I personally don't necessarily hold Kroenke responsible for that, but we underinvested hugely that season, and then overreacted by signing a boatload of expensive mediocrity in the form of Xhaka, Mustafi and Perez the following summer.

The league as a whole will continue to grow and a rising tide will float all boats, some more than others. But every further season out of the Champions League is a further fucking in relative terms.

Claudius

That Xhaka, Mustafi debacle is the biggest disaster. It reminds me of a lot of companies I study. You see new executives coming in. They want to turn around the company, they have energy and budget, do a bunch of analysis and they spend big. Everyone’s excited. Only problem is the analysis was divorced from overall strategy and an understanding of how everything in that company comes together to create value. On their own, those players might have been worth that money, but they were not worth that money to that team. And we kept doing it with Lacazette / Aubameyang and other debacles.

I don’t know how Stan ever made money. He seems to lack business acumen. At best he has an extractive strategy, just ringing whatever TV money he can out of Arsenal to get a margin above his loans.

Burnwinter

Agree with that. After the Leicester debacle, there were no fig leaves left for Wenger. He'd been arguing our stagnation in third and fourth place was the result of the financial might of our rivals for so many years by that stage.

The club consciously tried to create a changed culture, and they were budgeted to do it. Then they made poor decisions. Our spending summer 2016 was enormous and remarkably wasteful.

It's not all bad. Overall we're still not that badly placed. Things have not changed much since the tail end of the Wenger era, but we would benefit hugely from pulling together to achieve Champions League qualification this season. A couple of seasons back in the Champions League would restore the status quo ante Emery.

The responsibility for that lies with Mikel Arteta, not Stan Kroenke and I would love to see him get over the line. He's a charismatic man, intelligent and a leader with an admirable Arsenal history. That said, I felt Emery would get us there at this stage last season and we were in a better position then.

Claudius

What Gazidis did should not be underestimated. As per Ramble

let Spurs get a relative £200m revenue increase versus us
made almost no investment in secondary sponsorships, leaving us £50m behind teams like Chelsea / Liverpool
failed to use our war chest for us, particularly before the market inflated with PSG cash influx. We should’ve had players like Hazard and de Bruyne

I would add

foresaw the need for analytics but lacked the know how to integrate properly with business. He is case study for how not to set up an analytics team.
for years never saw the need to bring in a footballing right hand man to give a qualified opinion independent of Wenger
left to go destroy another historic club

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

What a useless man.

Qwiss

I lay all Gaizidis mistakes at Kroenkes feet. He didn't even sack him, Eggman left for a better job.

goon

I agree actually. I'm not saying Gazidis wasn't incompetent, but Stanley didn't really enable him until the damage was done.

Meatwad

i know i could (i hope you all could as well) make tons of money in real estate if i had inside info on when walmart was coming to an area.

Qwiss

Making money on real estate is easy as long as you already have loads of capital even without that info. As long as you've enough money to ride a blip here and there.

speedy

Qwiss! wrote:
speedy wrote:
Krosnke was 100% clear from day one.

"explicitly stating that he wants to continue to run the club on the current "break even" model." The Guardian 2011

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/apr/11/stan-kroenke-arsenal-takeover-questions

Their wasn't room for confusion from an investment standpoint. The only confusion would be from if he was going to saddled the debt on the club, which he didn't because he would have sunk it. But if we were stronger he probably would have.

IIRC correctly the claim was he'd be able to leverage the business side of things to help make the club more profitable which would allow for more spending on the football side. They've managed to do the opposite.

I never realised people thought of it that way. But tons of people thought trump's business connections would somehow help america as if the president needs doors to be opened. So that feasible that people thought that. But it probably was a bit of an unrealistic expectation.

Qwiss

Well Ivan Gaizidis said a lot of things that turned out to be unrealistic.

Claudius

https://www.realmadrid.com/en/news/2020/05/28/real-madrid-named-most-valuable-european-football-club-by-kpmg-consultancy-firm

10th most valuable club in the world. Half of Real and United. Behind Chelsea and Spurs. Wretched. I hope KSE falls apart and he’s forced to sell. Fucking cancerous bastard. Nothing but value erosion since Dein called him up.

jones

Agreed but then again it's a KPMG list. Probably scribbled on a bunch of PowerPoint slides by an actual monkey.

Claudius

I doubt they did extensive modeling. It’s all top down stuff where they probably applied a multiple to last years revenue. But it’s helpful directionally. Ten years ago we were a top six fixture.

jones

Yeah even directionally I'm not buying Spurs being more valuable than us.

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