Kieran Tierney has joined the Arsenal: Page 27 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Kieran Tierney has joined the Arsenal

Claudius

flobaba yeah. I still stand by that. It’s like watching these discussions with Thomas Partey. Also seeing some of the issues we’ve had with MLS and Calafiori being attacked by opponents in certain games. Our full back positions are incredibly hard to play, especially when a) you’re caught on the counter and b) the ball is switching from the other side, meaning you’re totally exposed on attack.

Do I think he’s really good? Yes. Do I think he’s as good as Timber? No. Timber is a beast

Btw, the Zinchenko progressive pass debate is not dissimilar to the Odegaard one. We have guys all over this forum talking like Odegaard was never any good. Just because our main linking player isn’t the one taking all the shots.

Big Willie

Claudius We have guys all over this forum talking like Odegaard was never any good. Just because our main linking player isn’t the one taking all the shots

No we don't. Just a couple people, if that.

flobaba

I agree - the chatter on Odegaard and Partey is a bit ludicrous, You would never hear me criticizing these players. I know what they bring to the table and fully understand that no other players in the squad (and very few in the whole of Europe) come close to replicating their abilities/ performances. But I don't base my evaluation on stats - but on what I'm seeing them contribute and how it impacts our team holistically. Odegaard leads our press and dictates our tempo. Partey is versatile, provides a strong defensive screen, is press resistant and can initiate quick counter attacks attacks from deep. These are critical aspects of our game. Partey is approaching the end of his career though so ideally we should be transitioning him out by the summer, hopefully.

QuincyAbeyie

We aren't a better team than when when Zinchenko was our first choice, so talk of us having outgrown him is weird.

RocktheCasbah

QuincyAbeyie curious as to why you think this.

I know the football hasn't been great to watch this season, but I think if you took Saka, Ode and Ben White out of the 22-23 team for three months each, we wouldn't have finished with 84 points and second in the Premier League. We saw what happened when Saliba missed the last three months.

We're a much tougher, more resilient side now, that should be clear.

flobaba

What do you mean we aren't a better team?

QuincyAbeyie

flobaba that we're... Not?

People want to say "we weren't wrong about Zinchenko being a liability, it's just that we've just become so much better since then that he's now a liability."

We haven't.

Big Willie

flobaba Same with Ben White. I love how people can forget him, but still not understand that it's a tribute to how good Timber is. Another one I mentioned we needed to upgrade.

I have not forgotten White and feel he'll get his spot back and give us that dynamic link up with Odegaard and Saka that we've been missing since he got injured. Timber is a great player, but he doesn't have the same chemistry and automatisms with the other two that White has. At least not yet.

flobaba

QuincyAbeyie we are not? How are you measuring this? Have all other factors remained constant? Anyway that’s not my point here. We are talking about the players, you’re talking about us not being a better team. Red herring, and it doesn’t necessarily translate. Mbappe went to Real Madrid, and they’re presumably not a better team than they were last term, but im pretty sure a majority of Real Madrid fans would rather have him than Rodrygo, even with his initial poor form. For me, the biggest issues Zinchenko had were his one v one defending vs pace, defensive positioning and lack of athleticism/ recovery pace. His replacement in Lewis Skelly may is still improving, but if you asked me to pick the better player for the team both long and short term, it’s a no brainer.

Burnwinter

We were a fair bit better in 23–24 than in 22–23, and the higher average size and athleticism we had was a part of that, including Zinchenko's diminished contribution.

The extraordinary level of the post-Dubai run to season's end in 23–24 was more impressive than our bright opening in 22–23. It was just a far more physically and mentally exigent collective feat, albeit perhaps flattered by the better luck that's completely deserted us this season to date.

flobaba

PS, you are free to go read up on my posts or complaints about Zinchenko in real time, I’m not making retrospective claims here. Same with Ben White. Same with Martinelli, same with Ramsdale at the time. It’s about evaluating the areas we can improve upon, however slightly. The only player we haven’t been able to replace adequately is still, to my surprise, Xhaka. And that’s giving huge credit to Granit, as I really did not like him for the bulk of his time here.

Claudius

flobaba good post. Once we settle down, Rice will make you forget about Xhaka. This guy is out best CM since you know who

Burnwinter

Rice is already better for us than Xhaka. Xhaka's speckled Arsenal career made his final improved season (after finally being pushed up the pitch to protect us from his terrible deficiencies as a pivot) appear better than it was.

Neither Xhaka's end product that season, nor what he was doing as a two-way player were better than what Rice is delivering with the kind of reliability that breeds a certain discontent.

Xhaka's only real advantage over Rice was that superb left foot, but we didn't see nearly enough of it, it's not like he was delivering great free kicks or dropping the ball onto a runner with a raking cross-field pass with any regularity.

MistaT

Burnwinter — I have a natural reaction (response) to dispute posts whenever I read one diminishing Xhaka’s impact in his last season while praising Rice.

Then I go and check stats, and I’m reminded how strong of a season Rice had last year. He essentially matched Xhaka’s totals from his best season, and offered more defensively. But even beyond G/A, his passing metrics (volume, percentages, and progressiveness) rival or beat Xhaka’s.

I do think Rice hasn’t had the positive impact on enabling Martinelli like Xhaka did, but that’s on our LBs and Martinelli as much as Rice.

Burnwinter

MistaT He essentially matched Xhaka’s totals from his best season, and offered more defensively. But even beyond G/A, his passing metrics (volume, percentages, and progressiveness) rival or beat Xhaka’s.

This is why I'm saying what I'm saying. Xhaka just had that dramatic trajectory, and good luck to him, but it only came after years of wilful and fitful performances.

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