Premier League 19/20: Page 77 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Premier League 19/20

Clrnc

It's a clear yellow card but the ref decides to give a red based on the outcome. Since when are cards decided on the severity of injury?

Anyway get well soon Gomes. That was horrible. Class from Coleman to find Son in the dressing room to console him

Klaus

Shades of Eduardo from that injury. I hope Gomes will be able to make a full recovery.

Ricky1985

It's reckless from Son. He's running flat out, lunges in, gets nowhere near the ball, and I'm not sure he was bothered about that because Gomes had given him a little hand in the face a few minutes before, and sends Gomes flying.

This is what happens when you lose control in a challenge, you endanger your opponent and terrible things can and will happen.

Hopefully Son learns from it and thinks twice next time before he lunges full speed at another player.

jones

Reckless challenge, lunging from behind plus nowhere near the ball - doesn't matter if it wasn't the contact that broke his leg it's a 100% red card all day.

banduan

yup. There's tactical fouls and there's fuckhead fouls and this was a clear case of the latter. Xhaka had a similar red once right?

Jed

Hope Gomes pulls through. Horrific injury.

On another note, great assist from Iwobi for Spurs’ goal.

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
Class from Coleman to find Son in the dressing room to console him

Considering Coleman was on the end of a similar tackle that kept him out for a year too I'm amazed he was able to sympathise with Son.

arsedocmd

suspect it's pocchetinho's dirty coaching. Forgot this aspect. Don't want him at arsenal.

Mirth

jones wrote:
Reckless challenge, lunging from behind plus nowhere near the ball - doesn't matter if it wasn't the contact that broke his leg it's a 100% red card all day.

Rescinded

😆

Mirth

Tbh a lot of people in the football world (and not just the FA) seem to think it wasn't a red which surprises me. I wonder if it's because Son is generally a likeable character and he showed remorse because by the rule book that's a clear red.

Claudius

It’s because it wasn’t a red card. No matter how many times I watch it, I cannot see a red card decision. The rules give the referee leeway to rule based on the nature of the tackle, not the outcome:

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

Bold Tone

If that was an Arsenal player, we are getting nothing and Keown defending Son annoyed me as I'm still furious that Dennis Bergkamp was red carded for touching a referee's hand.

Bold Tone

Clrnc wrote:
Hate the scouse cunts. They are as lucky as the United of the last decade with last min goals

3 times is lucky.

jones

Claudius wrote:
It’s because it wasn’t a red card. No matter how many times I watch it, I cannot see a red card decision. The rules give the referee leeway to rule based on the nature of the tackle, not the outcome:

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

You're literally quoting the rulebook stating that the outcome matters as well.

Take a different example to wrap your head around it - remember that Arnautovic shove on Debuchy that ended his career with us (and for the French NT too)? It was a simple push but by the rulebook (and in any other country by the ref too) it should have been a red card. Similar here, Son clearly didn't aim to break his leg but he also was far from getting to the ball, the tackle was meant to stop Gomes and stop him it did, he's ultimately responsible for the outcome of his foul.

jones

Mirth wrote:
Tbh a lot of people in the football world (and not just the FA) seem to think it wasn't a red which surprises me. I wonder if it's because Son is generally a likeable character and he showed remorse because by the rule book that's a clear red.

You'd have to wonder what kind of psychopath wouldn't show remorse in a situation like this though. Even Shawcross looked distraught back in 2010

Perfectly possible that played a role though. The FA, English media etc love to show affection to the honest lad in these situations more than to the guy losing a year of his career

jones

Bold Tone wrote:
If that was an Arsenal player, we are getting nothing and Keown defending Son annoyed me as I'm still furious that Dennis Bergkamp was red carded for touching a referee's hand.

😆

Mirth

jones wrote:
Claudius wrote:
It’s because it wasn’t a red card. No matter how many times I watch it, I cannot see a red card decision. The rules give the referee leeway to rule based on the nature of the tackle, not the outcome:

You're literally quoting the rulebook stating that the outcome matters as well.

Take a different example to wrap your head around it - remember that Arnautovic shove on Debuchy that ended his career with us (and for the French NT too)? It was a simple push but by the rulebook (and in any other country by the ref too) it should have been a red card. Similar here, Son clearly didn't aim to break his leg but he also was far from getting to the ball, the tackle was meant to stop Gomes and stop him it did, he's ultimately responsible for the outcome of his foul.

Although if we're citing examples - would Guendouzi's rugby tackle on Zaha also be a red if Zaha broke his arm while falling to the floor? It's can of worms that shouldn't be opened imo - I don't think Son would even want to be on the pitch next week anyway.

Claudius

I can endanger your safety without actually hurting you. I think that’s what that means as well. It’s telling that the referee’s initial reaction was to go for yellow immediately. It’s only after seeing the break that he was moved into going red. It’s a sickening outcome, showing that the outcome biased him. It’s good that the panel de-biased him and overturned it.

jones

Mirth wrote:
jones wrote:
You're literally quoting the rulebook stating that the outcome matters as well.

Take a different example to wrap your head around it - remember that Arnautovic shove on Debuchy that ended his career with us (and for the French NT too)? It was a simple push but by the rulebook (and in any other country by the ref too) it should have been a red card. Similar here, Son clearly didn't aim to break his leg but he also was far from getting to the ball, the tackle was meant to stop Gomes and stop him it did, he's ultimately responsible for the outcome of his foul.

Although if we're citing examples - would Guendouzi's rugby tackle on Zaha also be a red if Zaha broke his arm while falling to the floor? It's can of worms that shouldn't be opened imo - I don't think Son would even want to be on the pitch next week anyway.

It most definitely would be a red for me.

jones

Claudius wrote:
I can endanger your safety without actually hurting you. I think that’s what that means as well. It’s telling that the referee’s initial reaction was to go for yellow immediately. It’s only after seeing the break that he was moved into going red. It’s a sickening outcome, showing that the outcome biased him. It’s good that the panel de-biased him and overturned it.

I'm not sure you got my point. Son endangered his opponent's safety. The outcome was a broken leg. Even if there's no direct physical contact the causation is clear and it's not like it was an accident either Son wanted to foul it's just that he didn't expect to injure Gomes like that. Which is why ironically in this case the ref for once got it right; refs always naturally include the outcome into their decisions and it's only right that they would

Two or three times per match day you see a dangerously high leg where someone barely in time pulls it back and the result is a foul at best. Then thankfully rarely enough you have a situation like Mané vs Ederson where the boot isn't pulled back quickly enough. Should we treat these instances the same too?

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