Premier League 19/20: Page 73 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Premier League 19/20

goon

Qwiss! wrote:
Claudius wrote:
Emery has done enough to deserve a red card today.

In what world do you think the Arsenal board are going to fire a manager for being 5th in the league and top of our Europa group in October? I'd be far more worried by that than I would have a slightly under-performing manager till the end of the season. I thought the point of this forum was that people were a bit less hysterical about things than fan communities full of teenagers.

The question is why would they persist with someone if they don’t think it’s going to work? For the optics?

It’s hardly “hysterical” to believe he’s not the right man having witnessed what’s been happening on the pitch over the last 18 months.

Ricky1985

@[deleted]. If Sterling was offside, and it looked to me like he was, then the decision to award the goal is an outrage.

Clrnc wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
I wasn't sold on Grealish previously because I didn't, and still don't, rate his passing ability, but I didn't see this running power from him last season in the Championship, really wasn't expecting that to be a quality of his in the Premier League. He's an excellent ball-carrier and has outstanding stamina. With more experience, he could be a really good player.

He's a really good player. Reminds me a little of David Silva with the way he plays.

But in terms of English number 10 we need to pump everything into Maddison.

I see Grealish as centre midfielder more than a 10. He's strong and combative, and, as I mentioned, covers ground really well. Probably more closely resembles Guendouzi than anyone else in our squad. Maddison is definitely a Number 10 and, whilst I like his game a lot, I don't want us lining up with a 10 because I think it'd come at the expense of playing with really high and attacking wide forwards.

With that said, I don't think we should move for either of them. For me, if we're signing a midfielder it has to be someone that can give us what Guendouzi, Xhaka, Ceballos, Torreira, and Willock can't. Something like a cross between the last two in that list is what I would be looking for.

Mirth

Qwiss! wrote:
Mirth wrote:
But I don't buy that he's been slightly under-performing. I really hope he turns it around but there are several warning signs that make me feel things will get worse and not better.

Our goal is 4th, we're currently 5th. We finished 5th last season. Its the definition of slightly underperforming.

Fair enough - but when the main thrust of this discussion is 'when' rather than 'if' then it doesn't really reflect well on the situation Emery finds himself in.

Claudius

goon wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
In what world do you think the Arsenal board are going to fire a manager for being 5th in the league and top of our Europa group in October? I'd be far more worried by that than I would have a slightly under-performing manager till the end of the season. I thought the point of this forum was that people were a bit less hysterical about things than fan communities full of teenagers.

The question is why would they persist with someone if they don’t think it’s going to work? For the optics?

It’s hardly “hysterical” to believe he’s not the right man having witnessed what’s been happening on the pitch over the last 18 months.

Qwiss is correct that it’s very hard to fire a man who, on the surface, appears to be near his targets. But if we go back to the beginning of last season, when we talked about targets for Emery, I said that by the end of season 1 it was more important to have a foundation than to qualify for champions league. By this I meant a clear vision with a playing style that players understood and that would allow us to have a clear recruiting policy. 16 months into his reign, we have no idea what Emery is trying to do from game to game.

So I would make the decision not based on the current outcomes but on trajectory. Based on what he is doing, what can we expect to achieve? What is he building towards, if anything? The answers feel like nothing right now. So why persist?

deardevil

We're achieving par and hovering pretty much exactly where we ought to be. Leicester City are the team currently over-achieving and it's not the first time Rodgers has got a team to over achieve. So maybe he is someone we should be looking at.

deardevil

Big Willie wrote:
City have so much movement, third man runs, decoy runs, into space, behind the defence, everywhere. I just wish we'd be able to do similar. Ignoring the level of quality of their players, the movements and type of patterns in these movements are through good coaching. With even some of our shitty teams in the post Highbury era under Wenger we've always had good movement and as a result played good attacking football (well until his last few years when he went super conservative).

Lol! Imagine all of our players making all of these angled runs of all spices and variety, and instead of David Silva finding the right pass, you have Joe Willock or Bukayo Saka tasked with finding it. Not only would they be unlikely to make the right pass, half our team would be caught ahead of the ball in the likelihood that we lose the ball, and the possibility of conceding a goal on the counter would increase by a 1000%.

Big Willie

deardevil wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
City have so much movement, third man runs, decoy runs, into space, behind the defence, everywhere. I just wish we'd be able to do similar. Ignoring the level of quality of their players, the movements and type of patterns in these movements are through good coaching. With even some of our shitty teams in the post Highbury era under Wenger we've always had good movement and as a result played good attacking football (well until his last few years when he went super conservative).

Lol! Imagine all of our players making all of these angled runs of all spices and variety, and instead of David Silva finding the right pass, you have Joe Willock or Bukayo Saka tasked with finding it. Not only would they be unlikely to make the right pass, half our team would be caught ahead of the ball in the likelihood that we lose the ball, and the possibility of conceding a goal on the counter would increase by a 1000%.

That's if the players are doing things stupidly. No one said to have everyone run ahead of the ball at the same time. 2 or 3 players at a time depending on which side of the field we are attacking is enough with the rest around in their positions. Not even City have everyone ahead of the ball making runs, that's just absurd.

And despite that, even if what you mention is how our players end up playing, I'd much rather have us concede whilst trying to play football and being entertaining than to concede anyways whilst playing this boring, conservative style of football that doesn't make us any more solid than we used to be.

Clrnc

That should be that for Marco Silva.

deardevil

Big Willie wrote:
deardevil wrote:
Lol! Imagine all of our players making all of these angled runs of all spices and variety, and instead of David Silva finding the right pass, you have Joe Willock or Bukayo Saka tasked with finding it. Not only would they be unlikely to make the right pass, half our team would be caught ahead of the ball in the likelihood that we lose the ball, and the possibility of conceding a goal on the counter would increase by a 1000%.

That's if the players are doing things stupidly. No one said to have everyone run ahead of the ball at the same time. 2 or 3 players at a time depending on which side of the field we are attacking is enough with the rest around in their positions. Not even City have everyone ahead of the ball making runs, that's just absurd.

And despite that, even if what you mention is how our players end up playing, I'd much rather have us concede whilst trying to play football and being entertaining than to concede anyways whilst playing this boring, conservative style of football that doesn't make us any more solid than we used to be.

It's not about stupidity or intelligence. It's about ability and quality. You take more risks off the ball when your team is capable in possession. You take fewer risks off the ball when your team is not. Ashley Cole could charge 100 metres from LB to beyond Thierry Henry, because he had complete faith that Dennis Bergkamp could hold the ball and find the killer pass to release him on to goal. He most definitely won't be making that run today.

As for the second paragraph. I really don't think so mate. There is no preferred way of conceding a goal.

jones

goon wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
In what world do you think the Arsenal board are going to fire a manager for being 5th in the league and top of our Europa group in October? I'd be far more worried by that than I would have a slightly under-performing manager till the end of the season. I thought the point of this forum was that people were a bit less hysterical about things than fan communities full of teenagers.

The question is why would they persist with someone if they don’t think it’s going to work? For the optics?

It’s hardly “hysterical” to believe he’s not the right man having witnessed what’s been happening on the pitch over the last 18 months.

There's a massive difference between thinking he's not the right man and sacking him two months into his second season.

Big Willie

deardevil wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
That's if the players are doing things stupidly. No one said to have everyone run ahead of the ball at the same time. 2 or 3 players at a time depending on which side of the field we are attacking is enough with the rest around in their positions. Not even City have everyone ahead of the ball making runs, that's just absurd.

And despite that, even if what you mention is how our players end up playing, I'd much rather have us concede whilst trying to play football and being entertaining than to concede anyways whilst playing this boring, conservative style of football that doesn't make us any more solid than we used to be.

It's not about stupidity or intelligence. It's about ability and quality. You take more risks off the ball when your team is capable in possession. You take fewer risks off the ball when your team is not. Ashley Cole could charge 100 metres from LB to beyond Thierry Henry, because he had complete faith that Dennis Bergkamp could hold the ball and find the killer pass to release him on to goal. He most definitely won't be making that run today.

As for the second paragraph. I really don't think so mate. There is no preferred way of conceding a goal.

Thing is Clichy, Santos, Gibbs etc all made the same run. Didn't always receive it but it was how Wenger coached his teams to play. Well maybe not the same because our style of football changed from being more direct to a lot more patient afterwards but we still had plenty of movement and interchanging between our players. Granted confidence in your team mates plays a part, but that and a lack of ability does not explain why the players do not seem to be making the basic moves to open up space especially against teams who have even less "ability". Plenty of teams in the league and around Europe pass and move much better than we currently set out to do and it has a lot more to do with how we are set up and coached than the ability of our players.

With regards to my second point, fair enough if it doesn't make a difference to you. However if I'm going to support a team which concedes plenty of goals regardless of whether we play attacking or conservative football, I know which one I'd prefer each and every time, and it definitely isn't going to be what we've been seeing under Emery.

Shady

Chelsea 1-0, but Burnley have responded very well.

Shady

Chelsea playing with lots of enthusiasm this season, but surely it can't carry them through the entire season.

Leicester look a better team to me.

Shady

Jammy twats.

Qwiss

jones wrote:
goon wrote:
The question is why would they persist with someone if they don’t think it’s going to work? For the optics?

It’s hardly “hysterical” to believe he’s not the right man having witnessed what’s been happening on the pitch over the last 18 months.

There's a massive difference between thinking he's not the right man and sacking him two months into his second season.

Exactly. Thinking he's not the right man is fine, constant cries to sack him immediately are hysteria.

Claudius

So do you guys want to wait until we are completely shit out of luck?

flobaba

If you sack him now, then what?

HomeSteak

Chelsea have stopped conceding...can they bring in players in January? 1-2 players on top of what they are showing now and theres no way we can catch them.

DiabyKungFu

flobaba wrote:
If you sack him now, then what?

Then we hopefully enjoy watching Arsenal play football.

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
So do you guys want to wait until we are completely shit out of luck?

What does this even mean? The clubs given Emery targets, the targets are still achievable.

« Previous Page Next Page »