Time for Wenger to say toodle-oo and take his challenge-challenged players with him: Page 57 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Time for Wenger to say toodle-oo and take his challenge-challenged players with him

lorddulaarsenal

Caligula wrote:
we haven't even played consistently entertaining footballl since Hleb, Fabregas, Adebayor and Rosicky were in full flight.
at least if we had that. this team is unwatchable most weekends.

so true. even in our better performances, we look a bit hotchpot, relying on a nasri wonder goal or arshavin bit of magic.

Ricky1985

Caligula wrote:
we haven't even played consistently entertaining footballl since Hleb, Fabregas, Adebayor and Rosicky were in full flight.
at least if we had that. this team is unwatchable most weekends.

😆

Armor

We've had some really poor performances lately but we're easily the most watchable side in the league.

Biggus

Lagos wrote:
I'm sure some will take offence to you referring to masturbation as an amateur sport! 😆

Amateur solitary sport..........

Ricky1985 wrote:
Biggus, a Carling Cup win or even a FA cup win doesn't make up for the years of dross that has come before and after for those clubs' fans.

Portsmouth are struggling in the bloody Championship, you wouldn't swap places with them for a FA cup medal. Saying they have been more successful than us is really stretching it.

Biggus wrote:
In terms of finance we have been more successful than Portsmouth in recent years.
But in terms of football we have been less successful than the likes of Portsmouth and Birmingham.

Bend it slant it qualify it in any way you want Rick but it still remains factually correct.

Ricky1985

Come off it mate. Are you telling me you would rather have been a Portsmouth fan these last 6 years? Or rather Arsenal swap places with Portsmouth?

Biggus

No I'm an Arsenal supporter and I don't see why I should change just because my team is unsuccessful at the moment.
I'm unhappy that Portsmouth have been more successful than us recently so I'd much prefer change the management and some of the players.

Ricky1985

You know what I mean. Would you be happy with Arsenal trading places with Portsmouth in the last 6 years, if it meant we had an FA cup win to our name?

Xcdude24

Biggus, I also think it's unfair to say that the only measure of success in winning trophies. Ask your average Stoke fan, for example, and they'd tell you they've been extremely successful over the last few years. Moreover, I think you wouldn't be so quick to call Pompey/Brum more successful than us if you supported them.

Claudius

Why is there mention of Stoke and Portsmouth on this thread? These are not our peers, and we should not be comparing our priorities with theirs. This is not the 1980s when everyone had a chance. There are 3 or 4 teams competing for the title. We are firmly within that group thanks to Wenger, the board and Uefa. Our priority should be to compete with and benchmark ourselves against no more than the Sky 4

Biggus

For Stoke mere survival could be considered successful for Portsmouth to win a trophy was success beyond their wildest dreams, but for us anything less that a trophy a season is not success.
So no I wouldn't swap places with Portsmouth because for us not even 1 measly FA cup in 6 years could be considered successful by any stretch of the imagination.

You've have got to stop Wenger lowering your level of expectation to cover his incompetence and failure, whatever the historical path we arrived at this point the fact is that a club of our status is massively underachieving and to say different is an insult to peoples intelligence.

Xcdude24

Biggus wrote:
but for us anything less that a trophy a season is not success.

Since when?

CitizenNo9

We start the season with the aim of winning a trophy, if you don't win a trophy it's not successful! You can't declare success if you don't achieve your target.

asajoseph

otfgoon wrote:
asajoseph wrote:
I don't really know what you're talking about - those were all pretty decent sides last season, and this season have all spent massive chunks of the year in the relegation scrap. Christ, Liverpool have been diabolical this season, and they're 6th. I think the 8 point gap between 5th and 6th is pretty telling this year, anyway.

They're still all decent sides for mid tables teams. Liverpool have been diabolical, compared to what? Their own standards? Sure.

This is a difficult conversation, because it involves talking about different teams from different eras, but the suggestion that you can compare the teams I've just mentioned with their prior year counterparts is just odd.

Liverpool were in the relegation zone this season until about 10 games in. Now they're 6th. Aston Villa, last season 6th, this season they're currently 2 points off the drop. Rovers now just 3 points off the drop zone.

But compared to other teams that have finished 6th in the league over the years? Are Liverpool and Everton this year any worse than Bolton and Boro from 2005, or Blackburn and Newcastle from 2006?

Well, they're losing a lot more games, that's for sure. In 10/11, Liverpool have already lost 12 times. That's more than 6th place teams normally lose in a whole season.

You might argue that this is to do with the league just being more competitive, top-to-bottom, but I don't really see this as being the case, to be honest, certainly not on the basis of the football that's been played, and the position most teams have found themselves in this season.

Ricky1985

Liverpool have also beaten United comfortably, and Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. They're an exceptional case really as a 6th (ish) based team. They could lose 5 out 10 games, and then go on a long winning or unbeaten run because they have some absolutely top quality players.

goon

Who cares if they were in the relegation zone? It's a simple question of whether they are better, worse or the same as Fat Sams Bolton, Middlesbrough or Newcastle. You can't say comparing them is odd since thats the only possible way you could come to a conclusion that the standard is higher or lower. And forget about losses, wins or points total, simply use your memory of those sides.

I honestly don't see how you can come to the conclusion that Liverpool are a poorer side.

But anyway, will leave it at that.

asajoseph

otfgoon wrote:
Who cares if they were in the relegation zone? It's a simple question of whether they are better, worse or the same as Fat Sams Bolton, Middlesbrough or Newcastle. You can't say comparing them is odd since thats the only possible way you could come to a conclusion that the standard is higher or lower. And forget about losses, wins or points total, simply use your memory of those sides.

I honestly don't see how you can come to the conclusion that Liverpool are a poorer side.

But anyway, will leave it at that.

Fair enough - it's easy then, United are the worst side to win the league in a decade, and that's because the league, as a whole, is worse, which is clearly demonstrated by the fact a team can spend the first quarter of the season in the relegation zone, then recover to 6th without being especially good or impressive, or going on any particularly impressive run of form.

Liverpool are a poor side because they've lost a shit load of games, it's not hard to come to that conclusion at all. As ricky says, they still have some pretty bloody good players, but on the whole they've been terrible this season, and generally a lot worse than teams that finish in that position normally are.

Timbob

I think it's pretty widely accepted that the depth in quality in the Premier League is better than it ever has been.

asajoseph

I think it was last year. But the point is, most of the teams that made that the case 12 months ago have played like shit this season.

Timbob

My impression is that the overall quality in the league is better now than in the past. It's difficult to compare over a 12 month period as the fluctuation in quality will never be that great imo. But I dont watch many games between the teams lower down the league (West Ham matches aside), so I cant say for sure. There's certainly seems to be more individual quality among the lesser teams than before.

Burnwinter

I think management and tactics in the PL have gone ahead in leaps and bounds roughly since 5 or 6 years ago, and that's the main reason for the tighter spread of points.

The relegation candidates are significantly cannier about how they choose to set up these days, they play a very tough game and they're better at frustrating the stronger sides and also at having particular strategies for nicking a goal.

« Previous Page Next Page »