How many mangers have won CL with two shit to average sides like Porto and Inter?
I don’t want to make this a big Jose debate and as he is hated by most gooners it will never be an objective one but he’s a managerial legend.
Don’t get me wrong I fucking hated him when he was at Chelsea but he’s always box office and his CV simply speaks for itself.
Clrnc
Let me guess, Wenger is above him?
Sicario2 Arsenal fans will of course have Wenger much higher, but you'd be hard pressed to find a "neutral" list with Mourinho on top three. I just checked France Football and FourFourTwo since they were the first two that came up. Neither had him in the top 10. They both had Ferguson, Michels, Cruyff, Shankly, Pep, Sacchi, Busby, Herrera, Happel, Lobanovskyi above him.
Yes, but even if we don't bring Wenger into the debate.
Pep, Ancelotti, Fergie, Sacchi, Clough, Michels, Del Bosque, Hecyknes, Cruyff, Happel, Trappatoni, Paisley, Shankley are all above him.
Sicario2
Plays for the Arsenal for a start.
As a rule, we Arsenal fans overhype all our players. Simple exercise - look at all the players who fans complained about during the “value destruction” era who have since moved on from the club like Holding, Chambers, Tierney, Aubameyang, AMN, etc. None of these guys have since gone on to set the world alight. Yet Arteta was holding them back. I personally like to think that Martinelli might one day be as good as Sadio Mane. But maybe this is all we get. Man running into dead ends with no end product.
He's not as good as Mane yet, but here's a fact. 21yr old Martinelli got 20 League G+A last season, Mane only achieved this twice in 6 seasons at Liverpool.
Thanks, Goon. I’m hard on Martinelli because he’s my highest beta player. I have no idea where he will end up. In certain Nelson is mediocre. I’m certain Saka is incredible. I’m not sure with Nelli.
Claudius Nelson we a poor signing he's nowhere near good enough. Saka has great potential but still has another level he needs to go up to become that talisman like player similar to Salah.
Martinelli is a very one dimensional player at the moment, had a great break through season but so far the question is can he build consistency and develop his game. Last season he would run down the wing and looks to shift and shoot but that's been cut out this season as players have doubled up on him and forced him wide to rely on his passing or dribbling and neither of them are good enough at the moment.
He'll need to adapt his game significantly or there may not be a path to him becoming a Mane like because he was exceptional for Liverpool hitting double figure goals pretty much every season he was there.
Coombs I think it's pretty natural to think Martinelli will improve over time, he's only 22. These things aren't always a straight line though.
I do think people expect too much in terms of progression with players over 24 though.
Qwiss I think he'll improve, but I don't think it has to be at the expense of results. It's not one or the other.
Coombs I agree it shouldn't be. Thats not on Martinelli though, its on the manager for over playing him, not having the right players around him, not having a better CF to carry the goal scoring burden.
Qwiss Edu and the manager. They really needed another winger by now. As I expected, they built the team from the back to create stability, but we have underspent on attack given how expensive attacking talent is relative to the rest of the field. We needed to go slightly bigger up top, even if it meant losing some sweet hearts in the process
Qwiss I very much agree, but that doesn't make his shit performances any better. He's still been pretty awful, whatever the manager's failings. He needs to be rotated based on form, and we've nobody to rotate him with, but that doesn't make his failings somehow OK.
Claudius We need a CF and winger, but a CF first and foremost. Getting a 15 -20 goal striker is hard but getting the same from a winger is harder.
Claudius Don't need to bring Edu into this at all. He has no part to play in this, nor team rotations. Unless you think Edu was the one who renewed Nelson and rejected buying a new winger, prioritised a keeper etc.
Qwiss I’m fine with either. I just want someone who can do it on his own. Just think about the games that Henry, Wrighty, or even Robin just took over because they were so much better than the defenders. Fucking Carragher stumbling all over the place. Who can do that on our team?
Qwiss if we're honest, we need a striker and two wingers. The second winger can wait though.
Claudius Oh I know. Somehow after our match yesterday I ended up watching some Henry highlights and its just another world from the strikers we have now. The pace, power and skill all combined was just incredible. That said unless we go out and sign Mbappe I'm not sure a player anywhere close to that exists right now.
Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert I would bet that one high quality forward would be a significant game changer. We dont have a 4th guy who can reliably hit 4000 minutes and over 10 goals.
Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert don't agree with that. Sakais outstanding, Martinelli is close. Trossards decent. Just need one more. It can be Jesus till summer if we sign a CF.
It's ultimately on Arteta and the edu from recruitment perspective. What's happening to Martinelli and even Saka is the likely outcome with younger players. When people point to their ages and say it isn't reasonable to compare them to Salah or mane I would agree.
The problem is our manager has built the team so we have to rely on them as our goalscorers they are expected to deliver and it's not something that is a sensible plan for players of that age. Equally it's not a given that they will ever develop to what we are hoping either. So you need to have a different approach that doesn't leave them exposed when they aren't quite at it and could probably do with a game out or a game off the bench.
Claudius one top quality addition would certainly bring a massive improvement for the next five months.
