Anzac wrote:

I've been part of the WoB for over a decade and I'm not going to forgive and forget just because he's gone, until the point that IMO his influence/malaise is no longer impacting the club.

 

So you are going to pin every failure between now and whenever the above is on the most successful manager the club has had. Great.

Anzac wrote:

I recall a comment made that the players didn't appear to get upset with missed chances to score, because they seemed to expect that they would be able to create more opportunities and as such it never really seemed to matter. 

Anyways read this again and again. Are you possibly suggesting that Aubameyang and Lacazette missing some of the chances they have this season is also because somehow Wenger in the limited time he had with them convinced them it was ok to miss chances? Or they came to a club where everyone was comfortable with them missing chances?

Rohit wrote:

Anzac wrote:

I've been part of the WoB for over a decade and I'm not going to forgive and forget just because he's gone, until the point that IMO his influence/malaise is no longer impacting the club.

 

So you are going to pin every failure between now and whenever the above is on the most successful manager the club has had. Great.

IMO it will take at least as long as it does to replace any players in the squad signed before the likes of Lacazette.  It has been said that it takes something like 5 years to change a culture, but that in order to do so the time frame only starts from when everyone is on the same page & we aren't even close to being there as yet.

AW had 20 seasons to imprint his ideology, and IMO he wasn't up to it post the move.  He's not solely at fault but his decline and failure at Monaco is a similar story.
He may well be our most successful manager in terms of individual titles won, but he's also possibly had one of our longest runs without success and not been sacked.  In terms of silverware GG runs second with less than half the time, and Chapman's squad dominated domestic football in a way only seen by the LFC era through the '70s and 80s, and the SAF.

Rohit wrote:

Anzac wrote:

I recall a comment made that the players didn't appear to get upset with missed chances to score, because they seemed to expect that they would be able to create more opportunities and as such it never really seemed to matter. 

Anyways read this again and again. Are you possibly suggesting that Aubameyang and Lacazette missing some of the chances they have this season is also because somehow Wenger in the limited time he had with them convinced them it was ok to miss chances? Or they came to a club where everyone was comfortable with them missing chances?

This isn't just about the strikers and goes back before either were signed.  It's as much about the attitude of the players, coaches, manager and club. 

Suarez is another CF who relies a lot on volume of shots at goal in order to score his goals (or he did at LFC). It's not so much an issue when you are constantly creating scoring opportunities as a team, or even if you are shooting a lot if you don't, but our attack has had the same issues for years before Emery.

Claudius wrote:

Joe Cole said the other day that despite Chelsea and Arsenal being even on points, he would always advise a player to go to Chelsea because he feels that Chelsea will manufacture a crisis to improve their performance and bring in new management and players, while Arsenal will just move along. There is a view of a low performance culture at Arsenal from those who reports on or have played the game.

Chelsea are slipping away long term anyway. They are on the same points as Arsenal because the culture has changed there. They are no longer the biggest spenders as they were in Joe Coles time. They've been ousted by City and Abramovic isn't financially doping them to the same degree any more.

And who cares what Joe Cole thinks anyway, his agents used to try link us to a move for him all the time.

the kind of player that would listen to joe cole's advice isn't one that i want at arsenal anyway. never liked him as a player.

Lol. I do think he’s right though. He’s not the first to air this sentiment. Arsenal followers like Amy and Julien have said similar in the past about the lack of urgency at the club. I’ve heard some describe it almost as a Club Med. It is a consistent theme that probably has its merits given our lackluster showing in the last decade

I've never understood the purpose of comparing clubs living beyond their means to clubs that are operating within them. It's like saying you'd always recommend a player to go to Man City over the rest of the league. It holds no value since they're not even on the same chess board. They'd be a fart in the wind without their oil money and the same goes for Chelsea. Club culture my ass.

As far as young players are concerned I think that history has proven that Arsenal is a better destination than Chelsea.

Claudius wrote:

Lol. I do think he’s right though. He’s not the first to air this sentiment. Arsenal followers like Amy and Julien have said similar in the past about the lack of urgency at the club. I’ve heard some describe it almost as a Club Med. It is a consistent theme that probably has its merits given our lackluster showing in the last decade

Well I seen Ray Parlour do an interview a couple of months ago where he said the training was far more intensive now than under Wenger so that has to be part of clearing the "club med" vibe.

Klaus wrote:

I've never understood the purpose of comparing clubs living beyond their means to clubs that are operating within them. It's like saying you'd always recommend a player to go to Man City over the rest of the league. It holds no value since they're not even on the same chess board. They'd be a fart in the wind without their oil money and the same goes for Chelsea. Club culture my ass.

As far as young players are concerned I think that history has proven that Arsenal is a better destination than Chelsea.

I dunno Klaus if you signed for Chelsea young you could be competing for the title now like Salah and DeBruyne, just not at Chelsea.

Qwiss! wrote:

Claudius wrote:

Lol. I do think he’s right though. He’s not the first to air this sentiment. Arsenal followers like Amy and Julien have said similar in the past about the lack of urgency at the club. I’ve heard some describe it almost as a Club Med. It is a consistent theme that probably has its merits given our lackluster showing in the last decade

Well I seen Ray Parlour do an interview a couple of months ago where he said the training was far more intensive now than under Wenger so that has to be part of clearing the "club med" vibe.

I took that more to mean that fitness drills have a higher intensity. What Ornstein said does seem to be reflective of the Kroenke era, Wenger or no Wenger.

Seems like a cosmetic thing to me anyway. Ultimately it’s just about accountability, I.e. not allowing shit coaches to stay for 20 years and poor players season after season to prove they’re not up to it. Given the mass clear out at the club over the past year it definitely doesn’t strike me as a holiday retreat anymore.

Qwiss! wrote:

Claudius wrote:

Lol. I do think he’s right though. He’s not the first to air this sentiment. Arsenal followers like Amy and Julien have said similar in the past about the lack of urgency at the club. I’ve heard some describe it almost as a Club Med. It is a consistent theme that probably has its merits given our lackluster showing in the last decade

Well I seen Ray Parlour do an interview a couple of months ago where he said the training was far more intensive now than under Wenger so that has to be part of clearing the "club med" vibe.

You could see the relaxed vibe around the club. It was probably needed to get the best of the limited players especially in the increasingly hostile environment. The squads we had weren't title winning squads recently putting mega pressure on them would probably have lead to a crumble worst than we saw. Conversely the relaxed environment was probably partly why we struggled to raise our intensity against the best teams. 

Not only that, it would have contributed to the wantaway tendencies of the few quality players we did have. I always wondered why anyone with genuine ambition would want to remain with us in those days.

Madrid sign Militao.

50m, but who?

flobaba wrote:

Not only that, it would have contributed to the wantaway tendencies of the few quality players we did have. I always wondered why anyone with genuine ambition would want to remain with us in those days.

RVP said as much in his letter.

Point being that the limited player quality in the squad re 'Club Med' / cocooned environment AND the wantaway top players are all self imposed consequences of AW's weak transfer policy, in that he'd never pursue transfers for players he really wanted (let alone needed), and would only sign players he was told were already available to be sold.  
Even reading some of the comments about what he said to convince players to join had very little to do with success or winning, and more to do with the ideal environment and intuitive style of play to allow players to express themselves.